The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Bodybuilding
 
Delts Really Lagging
 

zraw
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 4106

detazathoth wrote:
want2getlean wrote:
Professor X wrote:
LOL @ haterz.



New Professor X meme


-Say stupid shit
-Call everyone 'haterz' when called out on it



DeFranco does overhead presses in the form of dumbbell clean and press....and this was stated in this thread already...making some of you look strange for all the effort.



Noone's arguing whether there is any form of pressing in WS4SB or not, people are just belwildered that one of the most unathletic guys here, who has never coached a single athlete, has the nerve to call the work of one of today's top S&C coaches 'crap'.



I'm starting to think Brofessor X is no different than the RougeVampire

Hell, I'm treating the two as if they're the same.

I'd suggest everyone should do the same


RV and PX are probably the same guy, albeit his RV persona isnt racist and biased to black people

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

deadlift1992
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 146

OP have you tried pushpresses, power jerks, overhead supports, power snatches? what volume are you using?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

JoeyMicas11
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 70

deadlift1992 wrote:
OP have you tried pushpresses, power jerks, overhead supports, power snatches? what volume are you using?



Hey. Yeah in past programs i have done power jerks, clean and jerks, pushpresses, military, of course all on different routines lol. But Ive just always seen my shoulders smaller than other muscles. i dont know if you guys know what im talking about ( I should take a picture) But if you looked at me from the front view. With a fit person you would see their lateral delt stick out further than there arm (width wise) but its the opposite with me. Also you would see other muscle seperation from the trap and just full shoulders. But I posted that other program I will try and post back! Maybe I will start a log.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

deadlift1992
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 146

OP I know exactly what you're talking about, my chest is the same way.... well now i'm working on it.. for me actually shoulders grow from just about anything.. your problem is most likely an activation issue ie mind muscle connection, have you tried isometric exercises before you do your mid delt stuff? i'm talking about wall lateral raises before like idk lateral raises then mp's?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Stronghold
Level 3

Join date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 6213

phishfood1128 wrote:
From a sports performance standpoint it is retarded to not have some form of heavy vertical pressing.

Last time I checked, using your football example, clean/press and bb military presses are a staple in the weight room.


Funny how roughly half of the NFL gets away without overhead pressing, as do a giant portion of division 1 college programs. What is retarded is looking at lifts and trying to draw 1=1 comparisons to sporting movements. For gridiron players, strength is strength. It doesn't matter if it's developed in the frontal or saggital plane because it is expressed purely in neither. When was the last time you were in a football weight room? Or ANY weight room for that matter.

phishfood1128 wrote:

yes i have. All it really means is how big of a contract your going to get. Not how good of a football player you are. Ask someone involved with scouting and the combine. Its not an accurate test of football skill nor strength on the field. It is a flawed means of comparison amongst the players. The 9 top performers in the past 9 years at the bench press test are all linemen. According to the bench press test brian urlacher and arian foster and rob gronkowski are marginal football players.


Being that the combine is organized by scouts and recruiters (people who evaluate talent) and has included the 225 for reps test (and even the 185 for reps test in the various high school level combines) since it's inception, I would say you're wrong. It doesn't REALLY matter though, because lifting's sole purpose for a gridiron player is to increase the amount of force they can apply during sporting movement and muscular size (improved leverage). You establish a false dichotomy between strength and on field performance because you fail to realize that for a football player, strength is best expressed via sporting movement rather than in the weight room. Urlacher, Foster, and Gronk are all plenty strong, but their efficiency of movement is preferential to sporting movement rather than training movement. Stop confusing the means with the ends.

Also, I watched the super bowl. Gronkowski is a marginal football player. I heard he got cut from the Patriots, anways. JOKES

phishfood1128 wrote:

well you stick to your template. Let me know when you become a professional athlete...


Professional? You mean like someone who earns money from their accomplishments in sport? Det does that. Next time you bring home a grand for being the best lifter at your sloppy mirror picture competition, let me know.

OP, agree with the earlier recommendation: moderately loaded full range of motion (standing) press on repetition day, possibly include press in a max effort rotation if you really care about it that much, and rear delt work/prehab measured in hours, not sets. I can't emphasize the full ROM part enough if you care about the size and health of your shoulders.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

deadlift1992
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 146

^ wholeheartedly agree

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

B.L.U. Ninja
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 933

FU StrongHold. You just rendered 5+ pages of dick swinging meaningless. Is this your thing now? Come in fashionably late and take shit over?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Bambi
Level

Join date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1427

I enjoyed this thread. Classic T-Nation. Not quite up to Zerchers but give it time.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

detazathoth
Level 3

Join date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 5499

Bambi wrote:
I enjoyed this thread. Classic T-Nation. Not quite up to Zerchers but give it time.


This is what happens when I leave the training log section of the site and start posting elsewhere

Stronghold and I are the dynamic fuck shit up duo

Better recognize!

olololololol

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Doh
Level

Join date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 464

The universal solution that has so far worked for me is to lift heavier and eat more. Saved myself a lot of headache!

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Marcello
Level

Join date: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 26

@ want2getlean

Thats amazing stregth, is that the same guy at different ages, in both vids?


Talking about strict Pressing (standing), there are few who could legit rep 315 for "reps"

The problem i have is the ROM of some claiming insane weights, but nevertheless very strong. When i reach 315lbs for a single i will be very happy


@ Professor X

Do you bent over raises with strict form? I guess i have never really found these to do anything for me...

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

want2getlean
Level

Join date: Nov 2011
Location:
Posts: 581

Marcello wrote:
@ want2getlean

Thats amazing stregth, is that the same guy at different ages, in both vids? How much is that deadlift?



nah, those are two different kids

that's an 800lb deadlift, nearly 365kg

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

bigmac73nh
Level 4

Join date: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 2798

bigmac73nh wrote:
JoeyMicas11 wrote:
What would you guys think about this:

Monday: Chest, Tris

Incline Dumbbell 3x6-10
Flat Barbell Bench 3x8-10
Decline Barbell Bench 3x10-12 (havent done decline in about a year, I hear its terrible and I hear its good, so maybe Ill throw it in.)
Pec Deck Fly Machine 2x12-15
Close Grip Bench Press or Skull Crushers 3x6-10
Rope Pushdowns 3x8-12
Abs

Tuesday: Back, Bis, Calves

Barbell Rows 3x6-10
Lat Pulldowns 4x8-12 or Straight Arm Pulldowns not sure
Close grip seated rows 3x8-12
Reverse Flys 3x8-12
Hammer Curls 3x10-12
Preacher Curls 3x10-12
Seated Calf Press 4x-10-15

Wed: Rest

Thurs: Shoulders, Traps

Standing shoulder Barbell Press 3x6-8
Dumbbell Military 3x8-12
Lateral Or L Raises 4x10-15 ( Not sure here, Would let to have huge lateral deltoids or atleast some lateral.. At the moment from front view, my arms still out to my side further than my delts lol)
Rear deltoid flys on incline 3x8-12
Upright Rows 4x10-12
Rack shrugs 4x6-10

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Legs, Lower Back, Forearms

Squats 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10 ( I dont know if much people do both deads and squats together, but I want both of them incorporated?)
Leg Press 3x8-10
Leg extensions 3x10-12
Leg Curls 3x10-12
Standing Calve Raises 4x8-12
Back extensions 2x10-15
Wrist Rollers 2x2-3

This is 4 days. I would like to do 5 days not sure how without making a separate arm day which I dont want to do. Advice guys? Just made this quickly in between classes!


If you want to make it 5 days, I would recommend modifying your split to this:

1- Posterior Chain (with the exception of rear delts)
2- Shoulders
OFF
3- Quads/Calves
4- Chest/Triceps
5- Back/Biceps

Posterior chain day would include your trap work, deadlifting, and hamstring work. I'll give more specifics if you want, but I need to get off the laptop for class lol. Just let me know.


Sorry, got distracted yesterday. Your exercise selections aren't bad, but I'd recommend adding/dropping a few when modifying the split.

1) Posterior Chain
A. Deadlift (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6/Active Rest: DB Upright Rows (very light) x 8-12 between sets
B1. Leg Curls 3x8-12 (2 sec hold at peak)
B2. DB RDL 3x8-12
C1. Rope Face Pulls To Above Head 3x8-12 (2 sec hold at peak)
C2. DB Shrugs 3x8-12
D. Back Extensions 2x15-20

2) Shoulders

A. Military Press (standing BB) (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6/AR: DB Laterals (very light)) x 8-12 between sets
B1. Unilateral Cable Lateral Raises (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12 LR
B2. DB Lateral Raise 3x8-12
C1. Rope Face Pulls To Eyes (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
C2. Bent Over Lateral Raise 3x8-12

3) Quads/Calves

A. Back Squat (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6
B1. Unilateral Leg Press (slow reps) 3x8-12 LR
B2. Leg Press 3x12-15
C. Standing Calf Raises 3x12-15
D. Seated Calf Press 3x12-15

4) Chest/Triceps

A. Bench Press (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6
B1. DB Squeeze Press (slow reps) 3x8-12
B2. Incline DB Press 3x8-12
C1. Cordova Extensions 3x8-12 LR
C2. Overhead Rope Extensions 3x8-12

5) Back/Biceps

A. BB Rows 4x8-12
B. Chins/Lat Pulldowns 4x8-12
C1. Rope Straight Arm Pulldowns (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
C2. Kneeling Rope Rows to Lower Chest (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
D. Preacher Curls 4x8-12
E. Hammer Curls To Ears (2 sec hold at peak, slow reps) 3x8-12

I'd suggest something like this for the 5 day split I mentioned. Obviously you can screw around with exercise selection if you know some things work better or worse for you. It's not perfect or anything, seeing as routines require a level of personalization and tweaking to make the most out of them, but it's somewhere to start anyway.

In general, just try to lead off with a heavy exercise, then work more with lighter weights on isolation exercises while focusing on MMC. The isolation work should really just be dedicated to improving muscle recruitment on the big lifts. If you feel like you need more work, add sets to the heavy moves rather than the isolation work.

Hope that helps.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

JoeyMicas11
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 70

bigmac73nh wrote:
bigmac73nh wrote:
JoeyMicas11 wrote:
What would you guys think about this:

Monday: Chest, Tris

Incline Dumbbell 3x6-10
Flat Barbell Bench 3x8-10
Decline Barbell Bench 3x10-12 (havent done decline in about a year, I hear its terrible and I hear its good, so maybe Ill throw it in.)
Pec Deck Fly Machine 2x12-15
Close Grip Bench Press or Skull Crushers 3x6-10
Rope Pushdowns 3x8-12
Abs

Tuesday: Back, Bis, Calves

Barbell Rows 3x6-10
Lat Pulldowns 4x8-12 or Straight Arm Pulldowns not sure
Close grip seated rows 3x8-12
Reverse Flys 3x8-12
Hammer Curls 3x10-12
Preacher Curls 3x10-12
Seated Calf Press 4x-10-15

Wed: Rest

Thurs: Shoulders, Traps

Standing shoulder Barbell Press 3x6-8
Dumbbell Military 3x8-12
Lateral Or L Raises 4x10-15 ( Not sure here, Would let to have huge lateral deltoids or atleast some lateral.. At the moment from front view, my arms still out to my side further than my delts lol)
Rear deltoid flys on incline 3x8-12
Upright Rows 4x10-12
Rack shrugs 4x6-10

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Legs, Lower Back, Forearms

Squats 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10 ( I dont know if much people do both deads and squats together, but I want both of them incorporated?)
Leg Press 3x8-10
Leg extensions 3x10-12
Leg Curls 3x10-12
Standing Calve Raises 4x8-12
Back extensions 2x10-15
Wrist Rollers 2x2-3

This is 4 days. I would like to do 5 days not sure how without making a separate arm day which I dont want to do. Advice guys? Just made this quickly in between classes!


If you want to make it 5 days, I would recommend modifying your split to this:

1- Posterior Chain (with the exception of rear delts)
2- Shoulders
OFF
3- Quads/Calves
4- Chest/Triceps
5- Back/Biceps

Posterior chain day would include your trap work, deadlifting, and hamstring work. I'll give more specifics if you want, but I need to get off the laptop for class lol. Just let me know.


Sorry, got distracted yesterday. Your exercise selections aren't bad, but I'd recommend adding/dropping a few when modifying the split.

1) Posterior Chain
A. Deadlift (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6/Active Rest: DB Upright Rows (very light) x 8-12 between sets
B1. Leg Curls 3x8-12 (2 sec hold at peak)
B2. DB RDL 3x8-12
C1. Rope Face Pulls To Above Head 3x8-12 (2 sec hold at peak)
C2. DB Shrugs 3x8-12
D. Back Extensions 2x15-20

2) Shoulders

A. Military Press (standing BB) (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6/AR: DB Laterals (very light)) x 8-12 between sets
B1. Unilateral Cable Lateral Raises (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12 LR
B2. DB Lateral Raise 3x8-12
C1. Rope Face Pulls To Eyes (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
C2. Bent Over Lateral Raise 3x8-12

3) Quads/Calves

A. Back Squat (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6
B1. Unilateral Leg Press (slow reps) 3x8-12 LR
B2. Leg Press 3x12-15
C. Standing Calf Raises 3x12-15
D. Seated Calf Press 3x12-15

4) Chest/Triceps

A. Bench Press (ramp up to ~8RM) 4x6
B1. DB Squeeze Press (slow reps) 3x8-12
B2. Incline DB Press 3x8-12
C1. Cordova Extensions 3x8-12 LR
C2. Overhead Rope Extensions 3x8-12

5) Back/Biceps

A. BB Rows 4x8-12
B. Chins/Lat Pulldowns 4x8-12
C1. Rope Straight Arm Pulldowns (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
C2. Kneeling Rope Rows to Lower Chest (2 sec hold at peak) 3x8-12
D. Preacher Curls 4x8-12
E. Hammer Curls To Ears (2 sec hold at peak, slow reps) 3x8-12

I'd suggest something like this for the 5 day split I mentioned. Obviously you can screw around with exercise selection if you know some things work better or worse for you. It's not perfect or anything, seeing as routines require a level of personalization and tweaking to make the most out of them, but it's somewhere to start anyway.

In general, just try to lead off with a heavy exercise, then work more with lighter weights on isolation exercises while focusing on MMC. The isolation work should really just be dedicated to improving muscle recruitment on the big lifts. If you feel like you need more work, add sets to the heavy moves rather than the isolation work.

Hope that helps.


Ok that looks cool. Ill switch out some exercises with ones that have given me success. But thanks for the info and layout. And Im assuming, by b1 and b2 or c1 or c2 you mean supersets?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

bigmac73nh
Level 4

Join date: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 2798

JoeyMicas11 wrote:

Ok that looks cool. Ill switch out some exercises with ones that have given me success. But thanks for the info and layout. And Im assuming, by b1 and b2 or c1 or c2 you mean supersets?


Superset or circuit... whichever you're comfortable with. 0-30 seconds between exercises- keep rests as short as possible, but take a quick rest if you need it.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

bigmac73nh
Level 4

Join date: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 2798

OP- here's what was shown to me for cordova extensions



Just so you know, I get PM's but can't send them, which is why I'm responding in here.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

JoeyMicas11
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 70

Okay got it. Thanks man. I was searching everywhere trying to find that lol

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

JoeyMicas11
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 70

Alright. BigMac. So I got a few questions on some exercises..Wondering if you can throw a video or two at me.

Im confused on "Rope straight arm pulldowns?" I saw a lot of videos but everyone has different techniques. So I was just wondering which you do. Then "kneeling rope rows to lower chest?" Just what it sounds like? Cant find any videos. If so how high should i set the pulleys.

I forgot to add. I tried the DB Squeeze Press today and it was bothering my left shoulder. Any idea for a replacement exercise?!

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

bigmac73nh
Level 4

Join date: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 2798

JoeyMicas11 wrote:
Alright. BigMac. So I got a few questions on some exercises..Wondering if you can throw a video or two at me.

Im confused on "Rope straight arm pulldowns?" I saw a lot of videos but everyone has different techniques. So I was just wondering which you do. Then "kneeling rope rows to lower chest?" Just what it sounds like? Cant find any videos. If so how high should i set the pulleys.

I forgot to add. I tried the DB Squeeze Press today and it was bothering my left shoulder. Any idea for a replacement exercise?!


This is pretty good for the straight arm pulldown:

Obviously you're using a rope instead of a bar, so your hands will be externally rotated 90 degrees and you'll be able to get a bit deeper on the bottom because the bar won't hit your midsection... all other cues should be the same.

The kneeling rows are exactly what they sound like. Right after you finish the straight arm pulldowns, regrip the rope so that the top of your hands are facing/against the handles, kneel down, lean back slightly, and row the rope towards you. When I was doing these, I'd set the pulley to max height and just leave it there for both exercises.

If the DB squeeze press bothers you, you can try the standing variation. Just grab a 5-10lb plate (it's up to you, weight isn't important and it's just a matter of finding a plate of desirable thickness). Put your palms against each side of the plate, and press them together like you're trying to crush the plate. Go through the same ROM as you would with the DB squeeze press, only you'll be standing rather than lying. Throughout the ROM, you should still be trying to crush the plate between your palms and moving fairly slowly. Make sure you shrug your traps up and back on these (as you would on a bench press setup) since it's supposed to simulate the pressing movement to improve pec recruitment on bench press. Pulling the traps up and back should take anterior delts out of the movement and keep your shoulder healthy.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Proud_Virgin
Level

Join date: Jul 2009
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 537

detazathoth: MVP 2012

(Most Valuable Poster)

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

JoeyMicas11
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 70

Thanks for the vids bigmack. So I havent been on the workout for long but i think its going well. However, I got strep a week ago and now I've lost 7lbs. Obviously the majority of it is water weight but I have noticed my stomach has shrank. I know a lot of people drink a lot of water before their meals to expand their stomachs but what else do you guys do when coming back from an illness?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report