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Calorie/macro progression when gaining Lean Mass
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monatu
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2008
Posts: 83

Hi John,

Just wanted to get your thoughts on progressing calories over a 10-16 week period where you are aiming to gain size/weight/mass (whatever you want to call it) in a SENSIBLE fashion.

In terms of a 300 calorie increment progression (every 2-4 weeks depending on bodyweight/composition), assuming someone around 200lb is already at 300g carbs on Training days and 150g on off-days - would you look to bump carbs up further or go for increased calories through Protein/fat?

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sideshowdoc
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 173

Hey man. I think John has mentioned many times that around 1.25 grams per lb for protein, around 0.4-0.5 grams per pound for fat, and then increase or decrease carbs based on goals.

That seems to be a good GENERAL guidline, so you can try that out for a while and see how it works solely manipulating carbs. HOWEVER, everyone is different and some people may grow or feel slightly better with higher amounts of protein and/or fat.

Im sure there are ways to determine what is optimal for you but that will just take some time and detective work, along with some help from people like John here and there ;) (and if you want to fast track it you can always hire his nutritional services, or find another reputable coach to work with)

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sput79
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2012
Posts: 663

This is what John personally told me when I asked:

Well generally I like something like:

1 - 1.25 grams of protein per lb.

.4 grams of fat per lb.

Carbs will vary based on activity.

*This just serves as a beginning point. From this point the changes you make are what determine whether you will do well or not do well.*

So true! No one has the same metabolism it's keeping track of what works best for YOU that makes or breaks your results. I added this last sentence. He likes the tape measure & the scale too. Just don't drive yourself crazy with daily weight fluctuations just know if it's moving up or down really fast assuming you didn't cut your carbs out completely then you've over shot over or down.

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iDrDan
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1254

I don't see how a man can only eat 1-1.25 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight lol. It's just so easy to get more than that. Plus if I'm going to overeat one macro it would definitely be protein.

Even on JM's "What I ate yesterday - worked well" post here in his forum, I calculated out that protein count to be 325 grams.

But like you and JM say, it just serves as a beginning point, every body is different and so more than 1-1.25g/lb of protein may be best for some individuals.

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Spidey22
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4110

iDrDan wrote:
I don't see how a man can only eat 1-1.25 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight lol. It's just so easy to get more than that. Plus if I'm going to overeat one macro it would definitely be protein.

Even on JM's "What I ate yesterday - worked well" post here in his forum, I calculated out that protein count to be 325 grams.

But like you and JM say, it just serves as a beginning point, every body is different and so more than 1-1.25g/lb of protein may be best for some individuals.


If I recall, aren't you a pretty light guy? A bigger guy eating more then 1.25g of protein per lb of BW could easily put them in the 350+ range, which for some is a lot. lol

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ryanbCXG
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5794

JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources

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iDrDan
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1254

ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?

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ryanbCXG
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5794

iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.

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sideshowdoc
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 173

Feel any less bloated or digesting meals easier?

ryanbCXG wrote:
iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.

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davidpz1983
Level

Join date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7

just wondering. if science shows optimal testosterone levels while eating 30% of your calories from fat with about 1:2 ratio of protein:carbs shouldnt that be how you set up your macros? so 20% protein, 40-45-50% carbs, and 30-35-40% fat might look like an ideal setup. now say if you strictly go with .4 x lbs for a 200lb guy comes out to 80g of fat. now lets say you consume 4000 calories per day - 30% of that comes out to 133g of fat per day. thats a big difference. id love to hear other peoples opinion on the matter.

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ryanbCXG
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5794

sideshowdoc wrote:
Feel any less bloated or digesting meals easier?

ryanbCXG wrote:
iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.



I have never had digestion issue with pro. Only fats

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Mikehr
Level

Join date: Nov 2012
Posts: 33

ryanbCXG wrote:
sideshowdoc wrote:
Feel any less bloated or digesting meals easier?

ryanbCXG wrote:
iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.



I have never had digestion issue with pro. Only fats


I am the opposite, fattier meats digest much better than lean protein. 2 cups of egg whites leaves me with worst digestion but 1 cup with 4 whole eggs and I am fine and they are roughly the same protein

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ZJStrope
Level 5

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1231

I've found keeping my fats high has worked out really well for me. The best part is you don't need to consume as much volume of food either.

I'm fat loss right now and am about 180g prot/120g carbs/80g fat. My carbs usually stay the same every day, but sometimes I eat a little more or less protein/fat. I always have a lot of energy, I feel great, and I've lost quite a bit of fat in since January and my strength has maintained and even gained in some areas, like my legs. And the best part, it's been EASY as hell. I haven't had to calculate anything or think about anything. I just get Protein/Carbs/Fats for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and 2 snacks: one with protein/fat (before bed) and one with protein/carbs (pre-workout).

I'm switching gears to muscle gain and I'll add a meal that ups all macros across the board and see how that goes. Once I feel that out, I'll add intraworkout carbs/protein (like plazma or surge recovery) on workout days. Any other adjustments will be upping macros across the board again.

I've tried High Protein/Low Carb = Me feeling like crap, no energy, etc and hard time digesting all the vegetables and protein I was eating. Gassy as hell and always felt clogged up so I was always taking fiber supps.

I've tried High Protein/High Carb = me gaining a lot of fat.

But these approaches work for some people!

This just goes to show how everyone's body is different and starting points as JM has laid out is just that, I great starting point. I personally appreciate JM never saying you HAVE to eat a certain way, just giving you some minimum starting points.

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John Meadows
Contributor

Join date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1728

Right on Z.

It is silly to think we all equally use carb and fat the same, digest all food the same etc. Pure silliness :)

I provide starting points because people will just sit around trying to conjure up the "perfect plan" and never actually do anything. Just start a regimented plan and adjust on what is happening as you go!

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ZJStrope
Level 5

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1231

John Meadows wrote:
Right on Z.

It is silly to think we all equally use carb and fat the same, digest all food the same etc. Pure silliness :)

I provide starting points because people will just sit around trying to conjure up the "perfect plan" and never actually do anything. Just start a regimented plan and adjust on what is happening as you go!


This equals me for the past 12 years. What a waste!

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sideshowdoc
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 173

John Meadows wrote:
Right on Z.

It is silly to think we all equally use carb and fat the same, digest all food the same etc. Pure silliness :)

I provide starting points because people will just sit around trying to conjure up the "perfect plan" and never actually do anything. Just start a regimented plan and adjust on what is happening as you go!


Hey John,

What do you specifically look for to indicate someone doesnt hanlde over a certain amount of carbs well, and from there do you just start adding to protein and fa in meals across the board and see if that works? Do you find as people continue training intensely that over time to some degree they can shift to more of a carb based approach?

And if a client has a weak apetite, is there anything you have found helps? Spacing meals outfarther, any supplements, etc?

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sideshowdoc
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 173

Just fats in general, as in over a certain amount, or certain sources?

ryanbCXG wrote:
sideshowdoc wrote:
Feel any less bloated or digesting meals easier?

ryanbCXG wrote:
iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.



I have never had digestion issue with pro. Only fats

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ryanbCXG
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5794

sideshowdoc wrote:
Just fats in general, as in over a certain amount, or certain sources?

ryanbCXG wrote:
sideshowdoc wrote:
Feel any less bloated or digesting meals easier?

ryanbCXG wrote:
iDrDan wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
JM is around 235 so 1.25 would put him near 300. He is also dieting and normally protein climbs a bit on a diet if I am not mistaken. Also I imagine he is only counting pro from pro sources not trace from other sources


Very true.
You still like to eat a crapload of protein too, right, Ryan? About how much do you consume a day?


200-250 which is just under to just over 1xbw. Got expensive eating lots. I just replaced extra protein with carbs. I have seen no difference in growth body comp or anything. More energy and who doesnt like to eat some extra carbs.....or fat if you body works better with those.



I have never had digestion issue with pro. Only fats



Source doesn't matter. Good sources or bad. Much above 80

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