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Cardio During Bulking?
 

Mateus
Level

Join date: Jun 2009
Posts: 826

Mad_Dog_Divine wrote:
....Should point out that I'm not hoping to be told that cardio isn't necessary.


Cardio is absolutely NOT necessary to get to 8-10% BF and lower in some cases. This is all diet, assisted or not.

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Mad_Dog_Divine
Level 2

Join date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20

Well I have cleaned up my diet recently and dropped some fat while staying around the same weight. Just hoping it continues. I prefer to put my effort into muscle building workouts and I'm training practically every day. Like others have said, I feel like I'm getting a lot of cardio benefits from my workouts.

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SSC
Level 3

Join date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6955

I gotta say, hearing BlueCollar re-affirming things that I've figured out instinctually in the last 1-2 years makes me feel damn good.

And I do agree with Ryan / Blue / Stu, I do my best not to do the same form of cardio two days in a row - including machines.

But, my gym also has a myriad of equipment... Jacob's Ladder, Prowler, treadmills, many forms of bikes, many forms of ellipticals, stair climbers, stair steppers, ropes, kettlebells, etc. I'd like to advocate doing barbell complexes too from time to time personally!

And there's always the cream of the crop - good ol' fashioned sprinting. :)

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AzCats
Level

Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 446

After listening to what Layne Norton has to say about SS Cardio, I will never in my life do steady state again. HIT is where it's at. If you haven't listen to this before..It's well worth checking out.

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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

Chris Colucci wrote:
RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
So im in my fourth week of my first cycle, and have been trying to put on as much size as possible. Im eating like i never have before and have gone from roughly 183 to 190 in just a few weeks. Only thing is, in order to put on more size, i cut back severly on my cardio- roughly 15 minutes every 2-3 days, along with uping my caloric/protein intake.

You weighed 180 pounds in January, when you had a thread that said you'd been "stalled" at that size for 3 or 4 months already.

You so seriously shouldn't have started a cycle, but it's a bit late for that.

I have to ask... what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

yas Coluccpi strikes again! love when you when you call on peoples silly choices haha

Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

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zraw
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4110

Mad_Dog_Divine wrote:
zraw wrote:
Here I am, coming to fuck everything thing up and say that I do no cardio at all during the offseason and as little as possible during prep

Uhhhhhhhhh

lol


Zraw, do you recommend cardio for the average gym goer looking to get 10%ish lean or not? I'm not doing any right now but am looking to add HIIT later maybe.


I'd personally tell you to only add it once you stop losing fat

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Chris Colucci
Contributor

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6902

dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I don't exactly follow what you just said. My point is, back in January you were trying to gain weight but stalled at "well over 3,000 calories", and you thought a Test booster was the best way to fix your situation.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...rone_boosters_5

After myself and few other pulled info out of you, it turns out you were training a bunch (two or more sessions a day) and simply not eating enough (as evidenced by your low fat, relatively-low calorie intake and your bodyweight that had been stagnant for several months).

For whatever reason, you had your heart 100% set on increasing your Test levels instead of addressing the more important issue (even though you're a certified trainer, which you pointed out in your first post for some reason). Less than two weeks later, you started a thread asking about your first steroid cycle. Makes... no... fucking... sense.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

You wanted advice from people. I offered you the advice I felt was most relevant to your situation. I was actually the first person to reply to your other thread, in case you forgot.

Now you're being a douche because you don't want to hear it. Boy oh boy, you got me figured out though. I have no life and I see my post count as a measure of my popularity. Dang, busted.

You won't reach your goals, but good luck anyhow.

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Mad_Dog_Divine
Level 2

Join date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20

zraw wrote:
Mad_Dog_Divine wrote:
zraw wrote:
Here I am, coming to fuck everything thing up and say that I do no cardio at all during the offseason and as little as possible during prep

Uhhhhhhhhh

lol


Zraw, do you recommend cardio for the average gym goer looking to get 10%ish lean or not? I'm not doing any right now but am looking to add HIIT later maybe.


I'd personally tell you to only add it once you stop losing fat


Thanks, Zraw. That's the plan so far. I have plenty of fat too lose yet and it is coming off at the moment. I'm hoping adding in cardio later on will give me an extra boost. Don't want to slow down this muscle gain.

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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I don't exactly follow what you just said. My point is, back in January you were trying to gain weight but stalled at "well over 3,000 calories", and you thought a Test booster was the best way to fix your situation.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...rone_boosters_5

After myself and few other pulled info out of you, it turns out you were training a bunch (two or more sessions a day) and simply not eating enough (as evidenced by your low fat, relatively-low calorie intake and your bodyweight that had been stagnant for several months).

For whatever reason, you had your heart 100% set on increasing your Test levels instead of addressing the more important issue (even though you're a certified trainer, which you pointed out in your first post for some reason). Less than two weeks later, you started a thread asking about your first steroid cycle. Makes... no... fucking... sense.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

You wanted advice from people. I offered you the advice I felt was most relevant to your situation. I was actually the first person to reply to your other thread, in case you forgot.

Now you're being a douche because you don't want to hear it. Boy oh boy, you got me figured out though. I have no life and I see my post count as a measure of my popularity. Dang, busted.

You won't reach your goals, but good luck anyhow.

Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day

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Ripsaw3689
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1597

dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I don't exactly follow what you just said. My point is, back in January you were trying to gain weight but stalled at "well over 3,000 calories", and you thought a Test booster was the best way to fix your situation.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...rone_boosters_5

After myself and few other pulled info out of you, it turns out you were training a bunch (two or more sessions a day) and simply not eating enough (as evidenced by your low fat, relatively-low calorie intake and your bodyweight that had been stagnant for several months).

For whatever reason, you had your heart 100% set on increasing your Test levels instead of addressing the more important issue (even though you're a certified trainer, which you pointed out in your first post for some reason). Less than two weeks later, you started a thread asking about your first steroid cycle. Makes... no... fucking... sense.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

You wanted advice from people. I offered you the advice I felt was most relevant to your situation. I was actually the first person to reply to your other thread, in case you forgot.

Now you're being a douche because you don't want to hear it. Boy oh boy, you got me figured out though. I have no life and I see my post count as a measure of my popularity. Dang, busted.

You won't reach your goals, but good luck anyhow.

Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day


I'm glad you're being mature about this.

Shame on Chris for answering questions and helping people on this forum for years. What an ass.

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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

Ripsaw3689 wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I don't exactly follow what you just said. My point is, back in January you were trying to gain weight but stalled at "well over 3,000 calories", and you thought a Test booster was the best way to fix your situation.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...rone_boosters_5

After myself and few other pulled info out of you, it turns out you were training a bunch (two or more sessions a day) and simply not eating enough (as evidenced by your low fat, relatively-low calorie intake and your bodyweight that had been stagnant for several months).

For whatever reason, you had your heart 100% set on increasing your Test levels instead of addressing the more important issue (even though you're a certified trainer, which you pointed out in your first post for some reason). Less than two weeks later, you started a thread asking about your first steroid cycle. Makes... no... fucking... sense.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

You wanted advice from people. I offered you the advice I felt was most relevant to your situation. I was actually the first person to reply to your other thread, in case you forgot.

Now you're being a douche because you don't want to hear it. Boy oh boy, you got me figured out though. I have no life and I see my post count as a measure of my popularity. Dang, busted.

You won't reach your goals, but good luck anyhow.

Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day


I'm glad you're being mature about this.

Shame on Chris for answering questions and helping people on this forum for years. What an ass.

Lol.I merely admitted to the guy that I could've been wrong in the past. Ain't my fault he's so touchy feely . We'll be good friends one day,I just know It

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Ripsaw3689
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1597

dnice617 wrote:
Ripsaw3689 wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
Betcha a dollar he overlooks it anyway. In that thread, he said he had a fast metabolism and wanted to "fix it" by using a Test booster instead of changing his low fat, low carb, low calorie diet. His mind was made up quite a while ago.

Forest for the trees. I swear.

Well I give u that. But correct me if I'm wrong: do people not come on to these sites,particularly make threads when theyre trying to expand their knowledge? What I might have known ir at least thought I did some months ago could have changed obviously with the help of knowledgabke people.

I don't exactly follow what you just said. My point is, back in January you were trying to gain weight but stalled at "well over 3,000 calories", and you thought a Test booster was the best way to fix your situation.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...rone_boosters_5

After myself and few other pulled info out of you, it turns out you were training a bunch (two or more sessions a day) and simply not eating enough (as evidenced by your low fat, relatively-low calorie intake and your bodyweight that had been stagnant for several months).

For whatever reason, you had your heart 100% set on increasing your Test levels instead of addressing the more important issue (even though you're a certified trainer, which you pointed out in your first post for some reason). Less than two weeks later, you started a thread asking about your first steroid cycle. Makes... no... fucking... sense.

I just find it disturbing that u have enough time in your "work" day to go through a grown man's post from four months ago. Virgin much?

You wanted advice from people. I offered you the advice I felt was most relevant to your situation. I was actually the first person to reply to your other thread, in case you forgot.

Now you're being a douche because you don't want to hear it. Boy oh boy, you got me figured out though. I have no life and I see my post count as a measure of my popularity. Dang, busted.

You won't reach your goals, but good luck anyhow.

Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day


I'm glad you're being mature about this.

Shame on Chris for answering questions and helping people on this forum for years. What an ass.

Lol.I merely admitted to the guy that I could've been wrong in the past. Ain't my fault he's so touchy feely . We'll be good friends one day,I just know It

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Posts: 7666

dnice617 wrote:
Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day

Are you like... autistic? Not trying to offend anybody, serious question. Just some of the things you say and the way you say them are socially very unusual.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 51898

csulli wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day

Are you like... autistic? Not trying to offend anybody, serious question. Just some of the things you say and the way you say them are socially very unusual.


Be careful. Guys like this will come back in 3 years claiming all you did was throw insults at them by pointing out the obvious.

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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

csulli wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
Lol, u obviously werent hugged enough as a child. In either case "Mr popular guy",if u took a second to read my response before your mangina caved in,you'll see that I said I have since gained knowledge from this site as well as learning some of what I thought I knew before hand was off. Don't worry,your balls will drop one day

Are you like... autistic? Not trying to offend anybody, serious question. Just some of the things you say and the way you say them are socially very unusual.

Lmao. Some of the people on this site.. smh..no,no autism here. Guess just trying to flex my comedy chops;the guy obviously took offense to what I said earlier (which in all honesty I didn't mean none,I just have an asshole sense of humor) so I was busting his balls

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Chris Colucci
Contributor

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6902

dnice617 wrote:
I just have an asshole sense of humor

You're half right.

so I was busting his balls

In that case, we're not quite "there" yet. Tell you what though. Toss up some of those progress pics you first said you'd post back in January, and maybe we can call it just about even.

Also, maybe get around to answering the actual question I asked about what you ate yesterday. That'd be interesting/helpful/useful.

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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
I just have an asshole sense of humor

You're half right.

so I was busting his balls

In that case, we're not quite "there" yet. Tell you what though. Toss up some of those progress pics you first said you'd post back in January, and maybe we can call it just about even.

Also, maybe get around to answering the actual question I asked about what you ate yesterday. That'd be interesting/helpful/useful.

See NOW we're making progress. I knew liked u Chris lol. Ok,meals usually go somethin like 7am post workout 6 egg whites 2 cups oatmeal . 9am 2-3 while chicken breasts, cup of broccoli,cup of rice. Repeat twice more before 2nd gym session,usually a whey shake 48grams somewhere in between, and finish the nite with even more chicken than normal cause I watch the carbs at nite(usually a casein shake before bed . I keep red meet to maybe twice a week.

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Ripsaw3689
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1597

dnice617 wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
I just have an asshole sense of humor

You're half right.

so I was busting his balls

In that case, we're not quite "there" yet. Tell you what though. Toss up some of those progress pics you first said you'd post back in January, and maybe we can call it just about even.

Also, maybe get around to answering the actual question I asked about what you ate yesterday. That'd be interesting/helpful/useful.

See NOW we're making progress. I knew liked u Chris lol. Ok,meals usually go somethin like 7am post workout 6 egg whites 2 cups oatmeal . 9am 2-3 while chicken breasts, cup of broccoli,cup of rice. Repeat twice more before 2nd gym session,usually a whey shake 48grams somewhere in between, and finish the nite with even more chicken than normal cause I watch the carbs at nite(usually a casein shake before bed . I keep red meet to maybe twice a week.


That looks too light on the fats. Some coconut oil or similar might go a long way towards your physique.

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Chris Colucci
Contributor

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6902

Ripsaw3689 wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
See NOW we're making progress. I knew liked u Chris lol. Ok,meals usually go somethin like 7am post workout 6 egg whites 2 cups oatmeal . 9am 2-3 while chicken breasts, cup of broccoli,cup of rice. Repeat twice more before 2nd gym session,usually a whey shake 48grams somewhere in between, and finish the nite with even more chicken than normal cause I watch the carbs at nite(usually a casein shake before bed . I keep red meet to maybe twice a week.

That looks too light on the fats. Some coconut oil or similar might go a long way towards your physique.

Agreed.

D, this looks pretty similar to how you were eating back in January, with maybe some more carbs. Clearly it isn't and hasn't been enough if the scale didn't move at all until the last few weeks.

There's zero reason to avoid egg yolks, especially when you're trying to gain size. Adding them, plus a protein-carb shake during your lifting session, will easily add a few hundred high quality calories to your day.

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Powerpuff
Level 3

Join date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2562

The Mighty Stu wrote:

It's the concept of how the body becomes more efficient at repeated tasks. As such, the more aerobic work you do, the less of a caloric cost it puts on your body. That's why you see so many folks who rely on traditional steady state work having to keep adding more and more to basically get the same effect on their caloric balance each day. Berardi, Norton, Poliquin, and many others have touched on this in their writings. You can get a nice explanation in a CSCS text if you care for the science involved.

A real life example of this that I've witnessed first hand (on a few occasions actually) is the ol' "fat aerobics instructor". I'm sure we've all see the woman who teaches 3-4 classes each day, does her own training, and yet looks nothing like the lean, toned specimen that you might expect. Or even the competitor who is doing hours and hours of steady state each day as their show draws near, adding more each successive week and yet they never really seem to be getting very far ahead.

S


Since Stu brought up women here. - I've often thought that in a calorie surplus, women would be more likely to put a higher percentage of the excess calories in fat stores than men. I suspect that we are less likely to handle a dirty bulk well, or would be more likely to wind up with a higher percentage of fat gain than our male counterpart. I'd think women might be more likely to benefit from some added cardio for the same reasons. Not that very many women even try to bulk :), but when you look at the hormone differences, we're just built to put more of the excess calories in fat stores. Of course, we have a harder time even gaining and keeping on muscle, so maybe going the "little to no cardio" route, at least for the first year is recommended. I'm not sure if it was necessary, but that's what I did for the first year.



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dnice617
Level

Join date: Jan 2013
Posts: 106

Chris Colucci wrote:
Ripsaw3689 wrote:
dnice617 wrote:
See NOW we're making progress. I knew liked u Chris lol. Ok,meals usually go somethin like 7am post workout 6 egg whites 2 cups oatmeal . 9am 2-3 while chicken breasts, cup of broccoli,cup of rice. Repeat twice more before 2nd gym session,usually a whey shake 48grams somewhere in between, and finish the nite with even more chicken than normal cause I watch the carbs at nite(usually a casein shake before bed . I keep red meet to maybe twice a week.

That looks too light on the fats. Some coconut oil or similar might go a long way towards your physique.

Agreed.

D, this looks pretty similar to how you were eating back in January, with maybe some more carbs. Clearly it isn't and hasn't been enough if the scale didn't move at all until the last few weeks.

There's zero reason to avoid egg yolks, especially when you're trying to gain size. Adding them, plus a protein-carb shake during your lifting session, will easily add a few hundred high quality calories to your day.

thanks fellas much appreciated

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jskrabac
Level 4

Join date: May 2010
Posts: 3993

I think the issue is too many people formulate strong opinions about how much cardio is necessary without even self experimenting within the whole spectrum. Go out and try hitting some HIIT 4x/week...even though you're "bulking." Go out and try a month with zero cardio...see how much you can ramp the intensity of your workouts and if you can keep cals the same as before.

I really think cardio is one of those things you have to "listen to your body" with...as ghey as that sounds. And it should also be cycled dependent on your training. If you're in a "power" phase...hitting stuff in the 2-6 rep ranges with some assistance work...better keep up with cardio. If you're doing 2x/week high frequency, high volume, you just might not need it.

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

meh, I just hit my "off season" and dropped cardio completely just because I was feeling burned out.

I will add it back in soon once my calories are a bit higher......... but I think my off season cardio will be exclusively hiit and only 2x a week rather than during cutting I was doing 3, 300 cal steady state days and 3, 15 minute HIIT days (20 sec sprint 140 sec relaxed pace).

Fuck it, I may some day fuck around and do cardio 4-6 times a week again.

I like to eat and doing a bit more to eat a bit more is cool to me.

plus it's summer man you can sneak extra cardio in. Sprint, chasing the frisbee. Sports. Go to one of those rave thang-a-langs and jump up and down for 3 hours straight.

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BlueCollarTr8n
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2913

jskrabac wrote:
I really think cardio is one of those things you have to "listen to your body" with...as ghey as that sounds. And it should also be cycled dependent on your training. If you're in a "power" phase...hitting stuff in the 2-6 rep ranges with some assistance work...better keep up with cardio. If you're doing 2x/week high frequency, high volume, you just might not need it.


Agreed.
I have developed minimums and maximums depending on the goal and other aspects of the current program.

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