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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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Do you guys think that I would squat more doing a powerlifter type stance using more of my lower back and less depth? I train for track so I want the emphasis to be on my legs, but maybe for powerlifting i should switch it up a couple weeks before meets in order to squeeze out more lbs
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fetacheese
Level 0
Join date: Nov 2005
Location: Greece
Posts: 12
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Very impressive squat. Max is around 480 which is close to 3xbw. Well done.
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Kevin Haywood
Level 0
Join date: May 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 282
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@JC_Tree_Trunks wrote:
Do you guys think that I would squat more doing a powerlifter type stance using more of my lower back and less depth? I train for track so I want the emphasis to be on my legs, but maybe for powerlifting i should switch it up a couple weeks before meets in order to squeeze out more lbs
Wow! Strong man. More pounds on the bar doesn't necessarily mean more speed. Also, there are other ways to increase intensity besides adding weight (e.g., slowing down your tempo, using bands and using heavy partials). Your form is great so you don't want to throw that out the window for simply a few more pounds (your spine will thank you). That's almost a 3x body weight Squat and you're no where near your peak, considering your age. Keep training smart and don't rush. Don't fix what's not broken.
To answer your question the transition from a Full Squat to a Powerlifting Squat isn't as automatic as you may think. Your true Powerlifting Squat strength will not show until months of dedicated specialization. So, no I don't think you should 'switch it up' come Track meet time.
Keep up the great work!
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CrewPierce
Level 4
Join date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 3949
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Great squat right there!! I wouldn't change a thing! You look built and for only 168 haha you must be really short!
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Aragorn
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7256
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@JC_Tree_Trunks wrote:
Do you guys think that I would squat more doing a powerlifter type stance using more of my lower back and less depth? I train for track so I want the emphasis to be on my legs, but maybe for powerlifting i should switch it up a couple weeks before meets in order to squeeze out more lbs
No, I don't think so at all. You have good form as is, and training with a powerlifting style squat will take away from your ability to train specifically for your sport (anybody who has trained for a long time around PLers with PL style squatting will notice how tight the lifters hips become and the extra binding will be a major disadvantage for track. You want fluidity in the hips.) The extra strength is not going to be noticeable until you've spent a long time on the PL style and built up the specific weaknesses that new stance will show you, so it's too much opportunity cost.
If your goal is to enter a meet and get a better squat while still keeping the track your main goal, I would simply suggest a squat specialization phase and keep your form suited to your sport. There are a lot of them out there, look at a few and try one if you have the training time to spend on it and the recovery ability considering the extra volume (a time of low track training would be good for jacking up the lifting).
I wouldn't advise lifting slower whatsoever. But you can progress with lessening rest periods over the weeks, or doing more reps per set, or doing more TOTAL reps, regardless of set #s, or whatever. Keep a quick tempo as you have currently shown.
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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CrewPierce wrote:
Great squat right there!! I wouldn't change a thing! You look built and for only 168 haha you must be really short!
Hey Im not that short! haha I am 5"7' without shoes on, so i am def not a tall fellow but im not really super short, I look more built because I am a really low BF % compared to a typical powerlifter. buts that because not many powerlifters do sprint intervals year round haha. I honestly dont know why more powerlifters dont considering the weight classes, being single digit bf % gives me a huge advantage i think
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
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Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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fetacheese wrote:
Very impressive squat. Max is around 480 which is close to 3xbw. Well done.
My max was 465 when i did 405 x 6, so without trying to sound arrogant, i believe that my max is around 500 flat right now, just going off of past workouts and how it felt. I think right now the range would be 490-510 for what i would predict. When i did a meet last year my best in a workout was 3 sets of 345 x 6, and i did 425 at the meet
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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Aragorn wrote:
No, I don't think so at all. You have good form as is, and training with a powerlifting style squat will take away from your ability to train specifically for your sport (anybody who has trained for a long time around PLers with PL style squatting will notice how tight the lifters hips become and the extra binding will be a major disadvantage for track. You want fluidity in the hips.) The extra strength is not going to be noticeable until you've spent a long time on the PL style and built up the specific weaknesses that new stance will show you, so it's too much opportunity cost.
If your goal is to enter a meet and get a better squat while still keeping the track your main goal, I would simply suggest a squat specialization phase and keep your form suited to your sport. There are a lot of them out there, look at a few and try one if you have the training time to spend on it and the recovery ability considering the extra volume (a time of low track training would be good for jacking up the lifting).
I wouldn't advise lifting slower whatsoever. But you can progress with lessening rest periods over the weeks, or doing more reps per set, or doing more TOTAL reps, regardless of set #s, or whatever. Keep a quick tempo as you have currently shown.
I am sorry I did not write my original post well, I forgot to mention that i actually do powerlifting meets in the summer, so I meant to ask if I should change my form before the powerlifting meets to get a few extra pounds, I still want to train with this form most of the time because of track, but maybe for the powerlifting meets switch it up a couple weeks before the pl meet? As others have suggested maybe i should just go with this form for now and worry about form when i am older (as i do plan to take powerlifting 100% serious year round after college)
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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And thank you guys all for being so positive too, I really appreciate the support
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Aragorn
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7256
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@JC_Tree_Trunks wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
No, I don't think so at all. You have good form as is, and training with a powerlifting style squat will take away from your ability to train specifically for your sport (anybody who has trained for a long time around PLers with PL style squatting will notice how tight the lifters hips become and the extra binding will be a major disadvantage for track. You want fluidity in the hips.) The extra strength is not going to be noticeable until you've spent a long time on the PL style and built up the specific weaknesses that new stance will show you, so it's too much opportunity cost.
If your goal is to enter a meet and get a better squat while still keeping the track your main goal, I would simply suggest a squat specialization phase and keep your form suited to your sport. There are a lot of them out there, look at a few and try one if you have the training time to spend on it and the recovery ability considering the extra volume (a time of low track training would be good for jacking up the lifting).
I wouldn't advise lifting slower whatsoever. But you can progress with lessening rest periods over the weeks, or doing more reps per set, or doing more TOTAL reps, regardless of set #s, or whatever. Keep a quick tempo as you have currently shown.
I am sorry I did not write my original post well, I forgot to mention that i actually do powerlifting meets in the summer, so I meant to ask if I should change my form before the powerlifting meets to get a few extra pounds, I still want to train with this form most of the time because of track, but maybe for the powerlifting meets switch it up a couple weeks before the pl meet? As others have suggested maybe i should just go with this form for now and worry about form when i am older (as i do plan to take powerlifting 100% serious year round after college)
No, I understood fine. That's great, but what I was saying (along with another poster here) was that changing stances and mechanics so drastically will not lead to increased squat strength in only a couple weeks--because the new stance has different biomechanics and different requirements for a big squat. Chances are you will find somw of the muscles that are stressed more in a PL wide stance squat to be weak because you haven't trained them with wide stance squatting for so long. Specificity of training and all that. It would take specific work on these new weak points in the new stance + a lot of time to be really getting a big strength boost out of the new style, not a couple weeks.
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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Aragorn wrote:
No, I understood fine. That's great, but what I was saying (along with another poster here) was that changing stances and mechanics so drastically will not lead to increased squat strength in only a couple weeks--because the new stance has different biomechanics and different requirements for a big squat. Chances are you will find somw of the muscles that are stressed more in a PL wide stance squat to be weak because you haven't trained them with wide stance squatting for so long. Specificity of training and all that. It would take specific work on these new weak points in the new stance + a lot of time to be really getting a big strength boost out of the new style, not a couple weeks.
Ahhh ok I understand now. That makes sense. Well then I dont think i will ever use a powerlifting stance then because I enjoy the training effects of narrow stance squatting. have seen many vids of some super strong raw narrow squatters so i think i still will be able to do some big things hopefully
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lift206
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 55
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Nice lift! That's very impressive. You said you've hit 3x6x345. How do you normally train to bring up your squat? I'm going to run 5/3/1 for the rest of this year and then try smolov next year. In any case I still need to work on technique lol
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Aragorn
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7256
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@JC_Tree_Trunks wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
No, I understood fine. That's great, but what I was saying (along with another poster here) was that changing stances and mechanics so drastically will not lead to increased squat strength in only a couple weeks--because the new stance has different biomechanics and different requirements for a big squat. Chances are you will find somw of the muscles that are stressed more in a PL wide stance squat to be weak because you haven't trained them with wide stance squatting for so long. Specificity of training and all that. It would take specific work on these new weak points in the new stance + a lot of time to be really getting a big strength boost out of the new style, not a couple weeks.
Ahhh ok I understand now. That makes sense. Well then I dont think i will ever use a powerlifting stance then because I enjoy the training effects of narrow stance squatting. have seen many vids of some super strong raw narrow squatters so i think i still will be able to do some big things hopefully
I agree completely. Plenty of guys squatting huge weights narrow stance. Get to work!
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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lift206 wrote:
Nice lift! That's very impressive. You said you've hit 3x6x345. How do you normally train to bring up your squat? I'm going to run 5/3/1 for the rest of this year and then try smolov next year. In any case I still need to work on technique lol
I actually go by the MAX OT program with legs. So just 4-6 reps 3 sets on squat, 2 sets on deadlift. Sometimes i go stiff legged deadlift to rest the CNS, sometimes i do leg press at the end, most of the time i do literally only 5 working sets a week of legs. Increase the weight about 10 pounds each week, I am lowering it for next workout cuz i find that it works better doing 6 reps all sets rather than 4 or 5 before going with more weight. But usually i can move up 10lbs weekly which is why my squat has gone up 100lbs in this past year.
I thought about doing 5/3/1, but i do NOT like it actually, I do not like powerlifting programs in general. Because they traing the lifts as if it is a perormance sport, its not, powerlifting is a training sport. Meaning that it is very little skill invlolved and is basic in nature.
The problem with 5.3.1 is you go heavy and hard on squat, but only 1 hard set. You build the muscle with the accessory movements, doing 10 reps on leg press ect. The big problem is, what is the best muscle builder for your legs? SQUATS! So in my opinion, the squat should not be seen as a performance event/movement that you need to practice while building muscle through other lifts, rather it is the very basic building block/indicator of stength. And should be the majority of the volume to actually training the leg muscles, not the movement itself. In powerlifting you dont practice, you train. In basketball/football ect you practice and train, because if you play football and do nothing else you will be small and not prepared. But with powerlifting it is so basic and we all know the movements themselves are the best mass/muscle builders, that we do not need to stray far from the actual events. Sorry for the rant but I really am going to try to change how people traing for powerlifting, when i start lifting serious weight I will show people that almost all of the powerlifting programs are in a completely wrong mindset and are overthinking it all. 5.3.1 still isnt terrible though
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
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Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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Have you seen those guys that get really strong and then all of a sudden they seem to stall for years. Its not because they reached a ceiling, its because they start thinking "Oh man im lifting huge weight now, so im going to need to reduce the volume and adjust accordingly since im handling this type of weight on my frame".
When i 405lbs now feels exactly the same to me as 315 did to me a year ago, its not like when you get to a certain stength level that your skeleton cant handle it. I lift mostly by myself and I believe that has helped me tremondously because I thought like every D3 football player was puttin up 500+, even though i found out thats not the case I try to maintain that same attitude that what im lifting is nothing near my limit and is not impressive.
So much of lifting is mental attitude its crazy. I cant wait when im done with college and track, I am going to show people that the Westside Barbell method is not the route for long term strength gains, just a short term pre-meet phase. Singles are only good for a month before the meet prep and for testing. Im sorry if I sound arrogant and like an idiot here, but I see something people dont. I have had friends succeed with this same mentality, and seen countless fail when they think 315 is heavy now they need to switch it up. I just cant wait to show people you dont have to be huge, wear a ridiculous suit, take roids and do the westside barbell bs method to squat retarded weight, I mean I am aiming for something mind blowing. I am going to lift so much that I post my vid of myself squattin and the weight is so much that I troll on myself because I think its gotta be fake.
I just know whats gonna happen. Just subscribe to this thread and i'll prove it to you guys, i'll post 450 x 6 in 3 weeks, guaranteed. If I havent done it by June 20th, then call me out on it, I deserve to be made fun of then.
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guinnessflow
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2011
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 77
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Dude, great squat --very motivating. What kind of track stats are you putting up?
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
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Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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guinnessflow wrote:
Dude, great squat --very motivating. What kind of track stats are you putting up?
Nothing crazy, I long jumped 6.40m freshman year which is exactly 21 feet, came in next sophmore year is great shape, ran 11.2 hand time in the 100 (around 11.5 auto) during the summer, and my first jump of the year I jumped just under my PR, 6.39m. But the whole year I never jumped as far and got slower, I really did not react well to our training program, I almost got kicked off the team for telling my assistant coach about how I feel out of shape with the training.
But now I tranferred to a bigger school, U of Cincy (libral arts school too expensive), and am now converting to decathlon because of my strength with my jumping. I've thrown the college shot (16lbs, hs shot is 12lbs) 35 feet off a standing throw. So it will be very interesting to see where this goes, my end goal is to score in the big east decat my 2nd and last year. I really love track and spend alotta time on the track, I think it has helped my lifts to an extent as well as the other way around. And thank you very much for the compliment, i appreciate it alot
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guinnessflow
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Join date: Sep 2011
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 77
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Well you are definitely strong. If you can get good technique in all 10 events, I'm sure you can meet your decathlon goal.
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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guinnessflow wrote:
Well you are definitely strong. If you can get good technique in all 10 events, I'm sure you can meet your decathlon goal.
Thank you, i sure as hell will work my ass off. It def will take some patience and a crazy amount of technique to learn, but I think I have a big leg up and I love track enough to where i will be 100% focused year round. Hell I just got done doing some harder 150m sprints after throwing dicus for an hour. Im really just trying to get the throws down, keep getting stronger, but mainly gettin in really really good sprint shape. Speed really seems to be the main thing, and i usually dont have great sprint endurance, so what i have been doing really is helping. Im glad I have already done the majority of my base training for the summer, running 300m sprints at 40 sec is NOT fun lmao. Now Im workin on 150s, gonna work my way down soon to 30m sprints top speed/acceleration work
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Ghost16
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2011
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 367
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OP I read what you said about challenging current powerlifting routines such as 5-3-1 and westside barbell. Yes, you do sound arrogant but that doesn't matter. We need people like you that are willing to challenge current thinking and try out new things so I say more power to you. Maybe you'll fail...and if you do you can rest easy knowing that you weren't afraid to go against the grain. And if you succeed... you'll have hundreds of people begging you to teach them about training.
Good luck. Very impressive squat. Keep up the good work!
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jtownlax
Level 1
Join date: Aug 2011
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 732
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Are you currently doing MAX- OT program for all body parts? Hows your diet as well. Very impressive lifting man.
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@JC_Tree_Trunks
Level 0
Join date: May 2012
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 299
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jtownlax wrote:
Are you currently doing MAX- OT program for all body parts? Hows your diet as well. Very impressive lifting man.
No I tried it with upper and it worked ok, but really not that effective with the bench press. And I just think it is too demanding on your CNS over time, I would do it maybe again just if I'm stuck at a platue, but i do not think that using MAX OT as a base program is effective. For upper body I actually do another thing powerlifters dont do, I bench 3 times a week and actually do a periodization program where I just do the same weight all 3 upper body workouts, and the weight changes weekly, not within the week. And its the same excerces for upper, Bench, Pulldown, OH press, curl. Sometimes I throw in 2 extra excercises in at the end, but for the most part its always those 4 excercises. Its a specific % based program, pyramid sets, 5 sets an excercise. Works well, I personally find that volume is much more important for benching and overall upper body development.
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