The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Get a Life
 
NFL 2012 Off season and DRAFT
 

red04
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3210

Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Derek542
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12743

red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

red04
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3210

Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Derek542
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12743

red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

red04
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3210

Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.


Not that all top10 picks are guaranteed studs, but even missing on so many of them, Detroit has become a playoff team basically by just drafting 'best available' at their super high pick every year. people are so quick to ignore all the teams that just stick to their spot, draft what they can, and stockpile good talent(Green Bay, Pitt, looking at you two more than any others). A lot of fans seem to think their organization should copy the Pats, when they seem to be the exception.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Derek542
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12743

But all those moves the Pats have done have kept them relevant an in the hunt but not gotten them a SB. Who knows its still a crap shoot to a point. I would have faith in the Walrus and rebuilding an organization that has been fucked up for so long like the Browns is going to take many years.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Viernes
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161

red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.


Not that all top10 picks are guaranteed studs, but even missing on so many of them, Detroit has become a playoff team basically by just drafting 'best available' at their super high pick every year. people are so quick to ignore all the teams that just stick to their spot, draft what they can, and stockpile good talent(Green Bay, Pitt, looking at you two more than any others). A lot of fans seem to think their organization should copy the Pats, when they seem to be the exception.


Can you blame the Lions for picking the best available? They're catching fire in a bottle (finally) but they're also being coached and managed better, and W's always breed more W's especially when you're young.

Since 2007 in the first round they've drafted:

'07 Megatron (Millen Pick)
'08 Goster Cherilus (Millen Pick)
'09 Stafford
'10 Suh
'10 Jahvid Best
'11 Nick Fairley

All of whom are on the roster, starting, and contributing. Can't blame them for finally having some continuity and success.






  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Viernes
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161

Viernes wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.


Not that all top10 picks are guaranteed studs, but even missing on so many of them, Detroit has become a playoff team basically by just drafting 'best available' at their super high pick every year. people are so quick to ignore all the teams that just stick to their spot, draft what they can, and stockpile good talent(Green Bay, Pitt, looking at you two more than any others). A lot of fans seem to think their organization should copy the Pats, when they seem to be the exception.


Can you blame the Lions for picking the best available? They're catching fire in a bottle (finally) but they're also being coached and managed better, and W's always breed more W's especially when you're young.

Since 2007 in the first round they've drafted:

'07 Megatron (Millen Pick)
'08 Goster Cherilus (Millen Pick)
'09 Stafford
'10 Suh
'10 Jahvid Best
'11 Nick Fairley

All of whom are on the roster, starting, and contributing (when Healthy). Can't blame them for finally having some continuity and success.







  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

red04
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3210

Viernes wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.


Not that all top10 picks are guaranteed studs, but even missing on so many of them, Detroit has become a playoff team basically by just drafting 'best available' at their super high pick every year. people are so quick to ignore all the teams that just stick to their spot, draft what they can, and stockpile good talent(Green Bay, Pitt, looking at you two more than any others). A lot of fans seem to think their organization should copy the Pats, when they seem to be the exception.


Can you blame the Lions for picking the best available? They're catching fire in a bottle (finally) but they're also being coached and managed better, and W's always breed more W's especially when you're young.

Since 2007 in the first round they've drafted:

'07 Megatron (Millen Pick)
'08 Goster Cherilus (Millen Pick)
'09 Stafford
'10 Suh
'10 Jahvid Best
'11 Nick Fairley

All of whom are on the roster, starting, and contributing. Can't blame them for finally having some continuity and success.


I'm not 'blaming' them, I wasn't insinuating it was bad, I actually am saying that it's good strategy. The Browns have traded down from high picks many times now(like they were afraid of drafting another bust), and have nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, another perennially bad team(DET) has decided to just draft up that top5 talent. Sure they hit a few busts as well, but it didn't stop them from going back to the well. Now that talent has added up, and they have skill on offense, and beef on that D-Line, and made the playoffs.

Too many teams seem to want to be the Patriots, when other good teams do just fine drafting what is available at the spot they are at; that was my main point.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Steel Nation
Level 10

Join date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5186

red04 wrote:
Viernes wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
red04 wrote:
Derek542 wrote:
^ Agreed. If you have a great line and a average QB though a RB can make him look better. AKA Alex Smith


It's not like I want no running game; I have actively tricked myself into believing the Browns will actually pursue a good player through a trade(see Stewart comment in previous post) to address this. I just don't think Richardson is the back to throw a #4 pick at. To be totally fair I don't know that Blackmon is a WR worth a #4 either, but if I had to choose I take him. Claiborne does seem worth the pick, but our offense is SO TERRIBLE, that I'm willing to accept not drafting the best available to fill a gaping hole.

If getting Floyd wasn't a scenario filled with 'well if that team doesn't take that guy...' then I'd be much more comfortable not taking Blackmon.


What about Blackmon at #4 and dont you have a later 1st round pick? You could pick up a right tackle there.


Blackmon at 4 and Mike Adams at 22 seems to be a fairly realistic possibility(putting Adams at RT). The #22 pick will obviously hinge on what teams end up drafting, these big boards get messed up quick by team needs changing through FA and trades mid-draft.


I think sometimes GM's and owners over think this shit and just should sit at there spots and draft need/best available. I wonder if the Pats will finally just pick what they have and stop moving around the board.


Not that all top10 picks are guaranteed studs, but even missing on so many of them, Detroit has become a playoff team basically by just drafting 'best available' at their super high pick every year. people are so quick to ignore all the teams that just stick to their spot, draft what they can, and stockpile good talent(Green Bay, Pitt, looking at you two more than any others). A lot of fans seem to think their organization should copy the Pats, when they seem to be the exception.


Can you blame the Lions for picking the best available? They're catching fire in a bottle (finally) but they're also being coached and managed better, and W's always breed more W's especially when you're young.

Since 2007 in the first round they've drafted:

'07 Megatron (Millen Pick)
'08 Goster Cherilus (Millen Pick)
'09 Stafford
'10 Suh
'10 Jahvid Best
'11 Nick Fairley

All of whom are on the roster, starting, and contributing. Can't blame them for finally having some continuity and success.


I'm not 'blaming' them, I wasn't insinuating it was bad, I actually am saying that it's good strategy. The Browns have traded down from high picks many times now(like they were afraid of drafting another bust), and have nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, another perennially bad team(DET) has decided to just draft up that top5 talent. Sure they hit a few busts as well, but it didn't stop them from going back to the well. Now that talent has added up, and they have skill on offense, and beef on that D-Line, and made the playoffs.

Too many teams seem to want to be the Patriots, when other good teams do just fine drafting what is available at the spot they are at; that was my main point.



Have the Patriots even done well with all of their wheeling and dealing? Outside of Hernandez and Gronkowski?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

defenderofTruth
Level

Join date: Sep 2010
Posts: 122

Steel Nation wrote:


Have the Patriots even done well with all of their wheeling and dealing? Outside of Hernandez and Gronkowski?



I think, overall, yes, but perhaps not as directly as you are asking. Over the years, they have had very little turnover in key positions due to this wheeling and dealing. This lack of turnover, combined with decreased salary issues (as a result of not drafting premium draft picks year in and year out), gives them financial leeway to work on trouble spots, when they arise. To that end, I'm interested to see how Belichek deals with his defensive woes.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Viernes
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 161

defenderofTruth wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:


Have the Patriots even done well with all of their wheeling and dealing? Outside of Hernandez and Gronkowski?



I think, overall, yes, but perhaps not as directly as you are asking. Over the years, they have had very little turnover in key positions due to this wheeling and dealing. This lack of turnover, combined with decreased salary issues (as a result of not drafting premium draft picks year in and year out), gives them financial leeway to work on trouble spots, when they arise. To that end, I'm interested to see how Belichek deals with his defensive woes.



Good question.

Back in the day it was Vrable, Bruschi, Seau, Harrison... Older dudes who still got it done.

I don't think that sort of combo exists anymore

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

bond james bond
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3363

[quote]doogie wrote:


LOL!

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

ChrisWaddle
Level

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 211

After all of Miami's whiffs so far in the offseason I am just relieved we didn't go after Tebow.

Bizarre really, I don't have any confidence in the front office there but I think Philbin will do a good job.

Wouldn't be surprised though if Tannenhill slips past Cleveland at 4 if we trade back to the middle of the first and try and grab him then before Clevelands' pick at 22.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Derek542
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12743

Tannehill will not get past Miami

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

strungoutboy21
Level 5

Join date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3236

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:


LOL! [/quote]
Haha, that was great.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Aggv
Level

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1970




What's funny is he is wearing the ex-long snappers jersey, which should not be a pleasant memory for Browns fans.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

WestCoast7
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5083

'Morning Guys!

Been off the boards for a while because of work and just life in general, but finally have some time to jump back on. Especially for the sports threads.

Hope everyone is doing real well, looking forward to getting back in the conversations.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1193

Well since we've been talking about the #1 pick from the 1998 draft, how about an article on the bust that happened at #2.

http://espn.go.com/...ers-friend-home

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

WestCoast7
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5083

Thoughts on this? I think having a true minor league system for the NFL would be very interesting, although I'd be worried about the affect that it might have on the college game...

"San Diego businessman Jaime Cuadra plans to bring the USFL back as a true NFL minor league.
As opposed to the UFL, the new league will allow the NFL "unfettered access" to players, allowing them to be promoted at will like baseball's minor leagues. Players will also receive salaries well beyond the level paid by the Arena League. The USFL is targeting markets that have neither NFL nor major-college football, such as Portland, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Memphis, Raleigh-Durham, Birmingham, Omaha, and Akron."

-RotoWorld

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1193

WestCoast7 wrote:
Thoughts on this? I think having a true minor league system for the NFL would be very interesting, although I'd be worried about the affect that it might have on the college game...

"San Diego businessman Jaime Cuadra plans to bring the USFL back as a true NFL minor league.
As opposed to the UFL, the new league will allow the NFL "unfettered access" to players, allowing them to be promoted at will like baseball's minor leagues. Players will also receive salaries well beyond the level paid by the Arena League. The USFL is targeting markets that have neither NFL nor major-college football, such as Portland, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Memphis, Raleigh-Durham, Birmingham, Omaha, and Akron."

-RotoWorld


This will fail like it has every other time, there is WAY too much money in NCAA ball

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

DBCooper
Level

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10509

lanchefan1 wrote:
WestCoast7 wrote:
Thoughts on this? I think having a true minor league system for the NFL would be very interesting, although I'd be worried about the affect that it might have on the college game...

"San Diego businessman Jaime Cuadra plans to bring the USFL back as a true NFL minor league.
As opposed to the UFL, the new league will allow the NFL "unfettered access" to players, allowing them to be promoted at will like baseball's minor leagues. Players will also receive salaries well beyond the level paid by the Arena League. The USFL is targeting markets that have neither NFL nor major-college football, such as Portland, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Memphis, Raleigh-Durham, Birmingham, Omaha, and Akron."

-RotoWorld


This will fail like it has every other time, there is WAY too much money in NCAA ball


I don't think this will work at all. Football isn't a skill game as much as it's a physical game. In baseball, for instance, the skill level required to play the game is SO much higher than football that it takes players several years to develop their skills well enough to play in the majors.

But the physical talent required to play baseball isn't as high, hence players regularly playing into their late 30's. In the NFL, it's much different. It's an easier sport to play, pure and simple, as evidenced by the much larger success rate that players have at younger ages. Many football players don't even start playing until they're in high school, whereas most pro baseball players have been playing since they were kids. On top of that, the average age of a rookie in the NFL making his debut is probably about 21. In the MLB it's probably around 23 or 24, if not higher.

So the difficulties involved with football are based more on physical talent than skill development. If a player doesn't quite make it in the NFL it's more than likely that he isn't big enough or strong enough or has some other issue that cannot be developed in a minor league system.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

QuadasarusFlex
Level

Join date: Apr 2011
Posts: 855

WestCoast7 wrote:
Thoughts on this? I think having a true minor league system for the NFL would be very interesting, although I'd be worried about the affect that it might have on the college game...

"San Diego businessman Jaime Cuadra plans to bring the USFL back as a true NFL minor league.
As opposed to the UFL, the new league will allow the NFL "unfettered access" to players, allowing them to be promoted at will like baseball's minor leagues. Players will also receive salaries well beyond the level paid by the Arena League. The USFL is targeting markets that have neither NFL nor major-college football, such as Portland, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Memphis, Raleigh-Durham, Birmingham, Omaha, and Akron."

-RotoWorld


Fuck yeah! Thats where Jim Kelly and Steve Young got their start. It would actually be potentially more exciting they didnt have the same rules as the NFL too. If only we got back the Houston Gamblers and we could play in the Astrodome again.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

QuadasarusFlex
Level

Join date: Apr 2011
Posts: 855

Btw,I disagree with everybody. This league has a good chance at succeeding when they aren't directly competing with the NFL and the fact that no other football league plays during the Spring.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1193

QuadasarusFlex wrote:
Btw,I disagree with everybody. This league has a good chance at succeeding when they aren't directly competing with the NFL and the fact that no other football league plays during the Spring.


Unfortunately history is against you on this one.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report