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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 7093

Testy1 wrote:
You are correct it does not relate to men earning more for the same job, it certainly could however point to bias, of which I have seen first hand.

Then what are we even debating? Gender biases for promotions and different job fields and such? That's a completely different topic.
Testy1 wrote:
Did you watch the video you linked to? It says nothing about the disparity in pay for the same job. His contention is that men make more OVERALL because of the types of jobs they do.

Did you read the part where I said it was a series of videos? He gets to it trust me. Given the number of minutes after my post that you replied, it is physically impossible that you have finished watching his lecture. So... Yes I watched ALL the videos, and no, you didn't.
Testy1 wrote:
As for the part on how capitalism works, it make be true in theory, however theory is seldom real life. It once again comes down to who, not what, you know.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I stand by the assertion that it makes no sense in this age to pay men more for something a woman could do for less, and I cannot be the only one who thinks so.

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Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3809

csulli wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
You are correct it does not relate to men earning more for the same job, it certainly could however point to bias, of which I have seen first hand.

Then what are we even debating? Gender biases for promotions and different job fields and such? That's a completely different topic.
Testy1 wrote:
Did you watch the video you linked to? It says nothing about the disparity in pay for the same job. His contention is that men make more OVERALL because of the types of jobs they do.

Did you read the part where I said it was a series of videos? He gets to it trust me. Given the number of minutes after my post that you replied, it is physically impossible that you have finished watching his lecture. So... Yes I watched ALL the videos, and no, you didn't.
Testy1 wrote:
As for the part on how capitalism works, it make be true in theory, however theory is seldom real life. It once again comes down to who, not what, you know.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I stand by the assertion that it makes no sense in this age to pay men more for something a woman could do for less, and I cannot be the only one who thinks so.


I watched the first two. How about posting the relevant video then? I'm not about to sit through five of them in the hope that he might prove your point.

As for the last part of your reply, how much time have you actually spent in the business world to come to this conclusion? Apparently not enough to realize that the old boys network and cliques still exist. I have seen it. It is not a just a theory I believe.

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 7093

Testy1 wrote:
I watched the first two. How about posting the relevant video then? I'm not about to sit through five of them in the hope that he might prove your point.

Fair enough. I don't remember which one it is, and I don't really care to go through them all right now either. I guess we're at an impasse lol.
Testy1 wrote:
As for the last part of your reply, how much time have you actually spent in the business world to come to this conclusion? Apparently not enough to realize that the old boys network and cliques still exist. I have seen it. It is not a just a theory I believe.

That's fair too, because I wasn't even talking about the old boys club. That, in my mind, is a totally separate issue. All I wanted to prove was that women do not get paid less than men for the SAME job.

What kind of things have you seen?

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Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3809

csulli wrote:

What kind of things have you seen?


Like I said, if you look at the wages at her work, men make a lot more on average than women in the exact same position. These are jobs that have a strict salary range and men are universally near the top of the range. My wife is a go getter, sometimes annoyingly so at home. There is no other explanation but bias for men that don't work as hard as her making more money for the same job.

Further, I have seen women get repeatedly passed over for promotion by men who certainly were not more competent and in many cases less so. I know this is not a direct comparison to making the same money for the same job, it does however as a whole keep woman's wages down.

I know in my wife's case she left her last job after seventeen years of glowing reviews as a department head. Her wonderful boss retired and an incompetent jackass with an ax to grind took his place. She went from the director telling her she was the best employee he had ever had, to being demoted and replaced by one of her underlings (the only man in the department). Don't try and tell me that politics doesn't sometimes trump money in the workplace.

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 7093

Testy1 wrote:
Further, I have seen women get repeatedly passed over for promotion by men who certainly were not more competent and in many cases less so. I know this is not a direct comparison to making the same money for the same job, it does however as a whole keep woman's wages down.

I know in my wife's case she left her last job after seventeen years of glowing reviews as a department head. Her wonderful boss retired and an incompetent jackass with an ax to grind took his place. She went from the director telling her she was the best employee he had ever had, to being demoted and replaced by one of her underlings (the only man in the department). Don't try and tell me that politics doesn't sometimes trump money in the workplace.

Politics sometimes trumps money. All kinds of shit sometimes happens, but all we can do is search measures of the average for trends. We can never account for every asshole boss.

However have you seen the stats on male vs female bosses? More often than not when females are in power the gender wage gap actually increases.

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Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3809

csulli wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
Further, I have seen women get repeatedly passed over for promotion by men who certainly were not more competent and in many cases less so. I know this is not a direct comparison to making the same money for the same job, it does however as a whole keep woman's wages down.

I know in my wife's case she left her last job after seventeen years of glowing reviews as a department head. Her wonderful boss retired and an incompetent jackass with an ax to grind took his place. She went from the director telling her she was the best employee he had ever had, to being demoted and replaced by one of her underlings (the only man in the department). Don't try and tell me that politics doesn't sometimes trump money in the workplace.

Politics sometimes trumps money. All kinds of shit sometimes happens, but all we can do is search measures of the average for trends. We can never account for every asshole boss.

However have you seen the stats on male vs female bosses? More often than not when females are in power the gender wage gap actually increases.


I don't doubt that, women are often worse to other women.

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 7093

Testy1 wrote:
csulli wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
Further, I have seen women get repeatedly passed over for promotion by men who certainly were not more competent and in many cases less so. I know this is not a direct comparison to making the same money for the same job, it does however as a whole keep woman's wages down.

I know in my wife's case she left her last job after seventeen years of glowing reviews as a department head. Her wonderful boss retired and an incompetent jackass with an ax to grind took his place. She went from the director telling her she was the best employee he had ever had, to being demoted and replaced by one of her underlings (the only man in the department). Don't try and tell me that politics doesn't sometimes trump money in the workplace.

Politics sometimes trumps money. All kinds of shit sometimes happens, but all we can do is search measures of the average for trends. We can never account for every asshole boss.

However have you seen the stats on male vs female bosses? More often than not when females are in power the gender wage gap actually increases.


I don't doubt that, women are often worse to other women.

You are the fastest poster in the west lol.

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Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3809

csulli wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
csulli wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
Further, I have seen women get repeatedly passed over for promotion by men who certainly were not more competent and in many cases less so. I know this is not a direct comparison to making the same money for the same job, it does however as a whole keep woman's wages down.

I know in my wife's case she left her last job after seventeen years of glowing reviews as a department head. Her wonderful boss retired and an incompetent jackass with an ax to grind took his place. She went from the director telling her she was the best employee he had ever had, to being demoted and replaced by one of her underlings (the only man in the department). Don't try and tell me that politics doesn't sometimes trump money in the workplace.

Politics sometimes trumps money. All kinds of shit sometimes happens, but all we can do is search measures of the average for trends. We can never account for every asshole boss.

However have you seen the stats on male vs female bosses? More often than not when females are in power the gender wage gap actually increases.


I don't doubt that, women are often worse to other women.

You are the fastest poster in the west lol.


all caught up at work and bored out of my mind.

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Varqanir
Level 3

Join date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 7660

Chushin wrote:

O is almost universally liked around here.


Holy crap. Things have changed around here. When did this happen?

:)

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USMCpoolee
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1134

pushharder wrote:
Chushin wrote:

As one of Orion's best and closest enemies, I really think you two have a future together.

But I'm afraid that pics of some sort are required before we turn our favorite woman-hating, U.S.- bashing, organized government-despising Austrian philosopher to you.

O is almost universally liked around here.

Other than when he's lecturing on the Apaches, of course.

So, photos, please.



Let's keep things straight 'round here. It's NOT the Apaches, my friend (you must be thinking of our tall, soap opera creator from New Mexico).


Push this is random, but how is your son healing up? Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

USMCpoolee wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Chushin wrote:

As one of Orion's best and closest enemies, I really think you two have a future together.

But I'm afraid that pics of some sort are required before we turn our favorite woman-hating, U.S.- bashing, organized government-despising Austrian philosopher to you.

O is almost universally liked around here.

Other than when he's lecturing on the Apaches, of course.

So, photos, please.



Let's keep things straight 'round here. It's NOT the Apaches, my friend (you must be thinking of our tall, soap opera creator from New Mexico).


Push this is random, but how is your son healing up? Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man



He is doing great! One more surgery to go in a couple months (tightening up the skin graft).

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

Varqanir wrote:
Chushin wrote:

O is almost universally liked around here.


Holy crap. Things have changed around here. When did this happen?

:)


Holee sheet! When did they let you out?

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Varqanir
Level 3

Join date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 7660

pushharder wrote:
Holee sheet! When did they let you out?


They haven't yet.

Still working on my cunning escape plan.

What's this I hear about you going to Japan?

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

Varqanir wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Holee sheet! When did they let you out?


They haven't yet.

Still working on my cunning escape plan.

What's this I hear about you going to Japan?


Yep. Wanna go with?

Or are you already back over yonder?

By the way, doesn't the prison library regulate your use of the computer? I thought the warden refused to let you visit T-Nation? Are you using a guard's smart phone? Why did you abandon us so callously? What is the meaning of life? Will you post a pic of your girlfriend?

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Varqanir
Level 3

Join date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 7660

pushharder wrote:

Yep. Wanna go with?

Or are you already back over yonder?

By the way, doesn't the prison library regulate your use of the computer? I thought the warden refused to let you visit T-Nation? Are you using a guard's smart phone? Why did you abandon us so callously? What is the meaning of life? Will you post a pic of your girlfriend?



The meaning of life is forty-two.

I'll have to get back to you on the other questions.

In the meantime, I do apologize for the callous abandonment, and that I still haven't made it up to Pushville.

Further, protocol dictates that my long absence means that I forfeit the arm-wrestling match, and therefore concede that one unborn human fetus is worth exactly one black slave.

How many people left on PWI who understand this reference, do ya think?

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

Varqanir wrote:
pushharder wrote:

Yep. Wanna go with?

Or are you already back over yonder?

By the way, doesn't the prison library regulate your use of the computer? I thought the warden refused to let you visit T-Nation? Are you using a guard's smart phone? Why did you abandon us so callously? What is the meaning of life? Will you post a pic of your girlfriend?



The meaning of life is forty-two.

I'll have to get back to you on the other questions.

In the meantime, I do apologize for the callous abandonment,



Don't ever let it happen again.



....I still haven't made it up to Pushville.



Rectify that situation!



Further, protocol dictates that my long absence means that I forfeit the arm-wrestling match, and therefore concede that one unborn human fetus is worth exactly one black slave.

How many people left on PWI who understand this reference, do ya think?



Maybe one or two.

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Testy1
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3809

USMCpoolee wrote:
Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man


Man that sucks. Hoping you have a speedy recovery.

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Chushin
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 7390

Testy1 wrote:
USMCpoolee wrote:
Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man


Man that sucks. Hoping you have a speedy recovery.


X2

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Stern
Level

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2385

pushharder wrote:
USMCpoolee wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Chushin wrote:

As one of Orion's best and closest enemies, I really think you two have a future together.

But I'm afraid that pics of some sort are required before we turn our favorite woman-hating, U.S.- bashing, organized government-despising Austrian philosopher to you.

O is almost universally liked around here.

Other than when he's lecturing on the Apaches, of course.

So, photos, please.



Let's keep things straight 'round here. It's NOT the Apaches, my friend (you must be thinking of our tall, soap opera creator from New Mexico).


Push this is random, but how is your son healing up? Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man



He is doing great! One more surgery to go in a couple months (tightening up the skin graft).


Best of luck with your son's op Push!

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

USMCpoolee wrote:
Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man


Not much fun. I wish you the very best. You will work through it.

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pushharder
Level 5

Join date: Apr 2005
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 37535

Stern wrote:
pushharder wrote:
USMCpoolee wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Chushin wrote:

As one of Orion's best and closest enemies, I really think you two have a future together.

But I'm afraid that pics of some sort are required before we turn our favorite woman-hating, U.S.- bashing, organized government-despising Austrian philosopher to you.

O is almost universally liked around here.

Other than when he's lecturing on the Apaches, of course.

So, photos, please.



Let's keep things straight 'round here. It's NOT the Apaches, my friend (you must be thinking of our tall, soap opera creator from New Mexico).


Push this is random, but how is your son healing up? Lost the top knuckle on 3 of my fingers on the right hand on friday. Running some oak through a joiner, the wood was launched and pulled me with it. Got lucky though, didn't lose a whole digit. This was painfully slow to type. Hope your boy is doing alright man



He is doing great! One more surgery to go in a couple months (tightening up the skin graft).


Best of luck with your son's op Push!


Thanks!

Might have to make it over your way one of these days since I can fly for free nowadays.

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Aragorn
Level 10

Join date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 9338

Varqanir wrote:

Further, protocol dictates that my long absence means that I forfeit the arm-wrestling match, and therefore concede that one unborn human fetus is worth exactly one black slave.

How many people left on PWI who understand this reference, do ya think?



Woooow, is that a blast from the past or what? Lol.

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