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Grinding Knees
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mom-in-MD
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14949

Lately I've noticed that my knees grind..ew.You can literally feel things moving around in there! I've known this for some time, but silly me thought it was just the way my knees were..also you can hear the grinding noise when I climb stairs..turns out, this is not so normal according to some reading I've been doing.

I've only become curious about it, because I've been having more knee pain and aches, as I have been working with heavier weight, and doing more cardio than I have before!
I've come up with a few causes, but really no cures aside from losing weight and strengthening the quads, which is what I have been doing!

Does anyone have similar sounding symptoms, and what was the outcome?

Of course the hubby is now prodding me to go get checked out, and I will, but I hate getting bad news. Especially since I am starting to train for a strongman comp. and have been very focused on getting these pounds off.

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mitchellh
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Join date: Dec 2007
Posts: 215

Had the same issue, take glucosamine.

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Iron Dwarf
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Posts: 16335

Mom (seems funny calling you that)

Is your pain directly behind the kneecap?
If so, you most likely have chondromalacia. This condition is actually a wearing away of the cartilage behind the patella. I've had surgery on both knees from this. But there are things you can do to prevent or reduce it. See what your dr says.

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mom-in-MD
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Join date: Sep 2005
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You can call me mommy if it makes you feel better, lol..j/k

yes, I would say the pain is behind the kneecap..I don't notice while training, accept if I try to jog like last night. But the aches definitely set in within a few hours after training..
Hopefully it's just a cartilage issue..
SO what are these 'things,' you can do?
I will be calling the Doc today!
Thanks...

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mitchellh
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Join date: Dec 2007
Posts: 215

also shark cartilage is supposed to help

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skaz05
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Join date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3175

I hear a crunching/ripping sound in my left knee when I squat. It doesn't hurt, but it is a very "nails on the chalkboard" type sound. Very unique.

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belligerent
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Join date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2408

Iron Dwarf got it right. You have chondromalacia patella, which is basically osteoarthritis of the patellofemoral joint. This is actually quite serious as it can be debilitating in the advanced stages. You should modify your training to place less stress on the joints. Even if it doesn't hurt now, the joints are slowly grinding down on themselves and will eventually become problematic.

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mom-in-MD
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Join date: Sep 2005
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wow, that's a downer... :(
so how the heck do you modify things, training wise?

strongman training, not such a good idea, then? lol..

I guess I shouldn't freak out til I talk to the doc..

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Yo Momma
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skaz05 wrote:
I hear a crunching/ripping sound in my left knee when I squat. It doesn't hurt, but it is a very "nails on the chalkboard" type sound. Very unique.


It's called "crepitus". I have it in my right knee. I used to hear it only during squats, but now I hear it whenever I bend my knee under any weight, like getting up from a low chair and walking the stairs.

Crepitus is due to irregularities occurring in the cartilage on the underside of the knee cap.

While crepitus by itself is not a major concern, pain that goes along with the crunching should be checked out.

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ahzaz
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Posts: 1130

mitchellh wrote:
also shark cartilage is supposed to help


thats just like eating your fingernails.. =_="

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rrjc5488
Level 5

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12901

mom-in-MD wrote:
wow, that's a downer... :(
so how the heck do you modify things, training wise?


http://www.T-Nation.com/...iendly_training


What does your fat intake look like? I know when I drop my fat intake my joints feel like they're taking a beating.

I'd try mega-dosing fish oil. I personally take 4 Flameout a day, then about a dozen other generic fish oil on top of that.

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Its All U
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Posts: 247

My knees make noise, but I have no pain and normal to heavy training has not been a problem for me.

I worried about it to for a while and did some reading, from what I read there are a few potential medical problems like the ones stated above. And it is also common for people to just have noisy knees.

So talking to your Doctor is probably best.

BTW
Talk to your husband:
I notice the noise goes away for a few days after having sex.

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buffalokilla
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Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2305

belligerent wrote:
Iron Dwarf got it right. You have chondromalacia patella, which is basically osteoarthritis of the patellofemoral joint. This is actually quite serious as it can be debilitating in the advanced stages. You should modify your training to place less stress on the joints. Even if it doesn't hurt now, the joints are slowly grinding down on themselves and will eventually become problematic.


If the pain really is directly behind the kneecap, this is correct. There are a number of ways you can modify training to correct it.

1) Make sure your form is sound. I don't mean competitive powerlifting sound or retard-strong strongman sound (much love to both), I mean correct every time. This may mean reducing weight on the bar considerably.

2) Ensure proper flexibility. If you can't full squat with a neutral spine, you're inflexible. If your hands point inward when you stand relaxed, your internal rotators are tight. Most doctors are incapable of assessing this, so take what any of them say with a grain of salt.

3) Speaking of full squats, do them once you're flexible enough. Also use a foam or pvc roller on your IT band, do VM specific work like Peterson step-ups, and ensure your ankle dorsiflexors are strong.

4) You may have a structural problem going on outside the knee that is manifesting in a problem at the knee; this is fairly common. Consider getting assessed for orthodics and make sure you're not lifting heavy things in shoes with a squishy sole. Any cross trainer, running shoe, or walking shoe falls in this category and should not be worn when lifting. The best orthodics available are e-Soles, but may not be available in your area.

5) Glucosamine and good fats are good advice. Make sure you're well hydrated too; pee should be nearly clear.

6) If you ever run, stop. It's as bad as competitive powerlifting and strongman for joints, with far fewer benefits. If you just enjoy it, limit to a mile or two per day.

7) Consider a support if the above doesn't clear it up after a month or two. Rehband is the way to go on these if you're fairly strong.

Most of the above is to make sure your patella is tracking properly, the rest is good practice regarding knee health, and may or may not apply to your situation. And, as with all musculoskeletal health advice, your doctor and/or chiropractor is probably not a good source of information. Consult a sports oriented PT if you can.

-Dan

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mom-in-MD
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Join date: Sep 2005
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Thank you all for replying..

rrjc- I average about 50g of good fats spread through the day..lately I haven't been focusing on numbers, just aiming to make better choices and to eat as clean as possible..

Dan-very helpful tips! I've been needing new shoes as well..my ankles are so sore in the mornings too! The problem is that I have huge feet, so I resort to wearing mens shoes, cause they hardly ever have my size in stores..(10.5/11 womens)

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Steve8867
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Join date: Feb 2006
Posts: 583

"My" knees sound like rice crispies!

No pain though.

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Omca
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Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 104

I get pain when squatting, just above the knee, is this a similar thing?

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Iron Dwarf
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Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 16335

Omca wrote:
I get pain when squatting, just above the knee, is this a similar thing?



THAT sounds like tendinitis! Be careful... it took me 7 months (of zero leg work) to get rid of mine this past year... in both knees and elbows!

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wushufanatic
Level 2

Join date: Jun 2004
Posts: 136

buffalokilla wrote:
Consult a sports oriented PT if you can.



As much as people like to help over the internet, you can't really rely on that advice because you don't even really know if it applies to you as an assessment over the internet is not reliable at all no matter how best you describe it. You need to go into a sports med or an ortho so that someone can actually see and hear what's going on to make an accurate assessment.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Alflutops. Used it on my fiancee's knees with great success.

And for pete's sake, DON'T RUN if you have bad knees; you'll only accelerate the problem.

BBB

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Yo Momma
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Join date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4729

bushidobadboy wrote:
Alflutops. Used it on my fiancee's knees with great success.
BBB


Did you use the injectable or the topical?

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giterdone
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Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5174

I have the same issue. I'll be watching this thread.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Yo Momma wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Alflutops. Used it on my fiancee's knees with great success.
BBB

Did you use the injectable or the topical?



Injectable. Didn't know there even was a topical, so thanks for that. Even so I would likely use the injectable, just to remove any uncertainty over bio-availability.

BBB

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mom-in-MD
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14949

Thanks again everyone..
I did the eliptical for cardio and even then I can feel things moving around in my knees, so much that I couldn't ignore it..so annoying!! Walking uphill on the treadmill seems to be ok..
I don't even like running, lol..only did it in bootcamp because I *had* to..

So basically, I am going to see the doc..and I'll get referred to a specialist..
Meanwhile- no more running!!

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patricio2626
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Join date: Dec 2008
Posts: 506

Indeed, IF (don't trust the internet diagnosis 100%) it is chondromalacia, stop running... the condition is also known as 'runners knee', and can be a result of repetitive stress (striking the ground with each step). Does cycling hurt you? If not, you may find you really enjoy it; I'll take a 30+ mile put any day over a 6-mile run :)

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mom-in-MD
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14949

Cycling doesn't bother me...thanks Patricio!

I'm also concerned about other compound stuff, like squats, deads, lunges, etc...
If it doesn't hurt, do you think it's ok? I know you all are not docs, but I trust your opinions..
My appt with my own Doc isn't even for another month, and who knows how long it will take to get in to see the specialist..ugh.

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