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Thermogenics and Hypothyroidism
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SirenSong61
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Join date: Aug 2009
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I take meds for hypothyroidism (125mcg. daily) and know that I'm "not supposed" to use thermogenics (i.e., HOT-ROX, etc.). What I don't know is WHY, especially since I think I should be a-okay as long as I regularly take my meds (always do).

Anyone?

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7lucky7
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the herb/root Forskohlii (what Carbolin 19 19 is made from) has been used as a treatment for hypothyroidism in the past, its can change your TFT values so might screw with your current treatment regime.

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Mikael LS
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I wouldnt. I do however think you could talk to your doctor about temporarily increase the dosage. The medications you are taking are probably the same some BB's are using.

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BobParr
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I suspect the reason they say you're not supposed to is to avoid over-stimulation.

Since the thyroid meds are somewhat stimulating and can raise blood pressure, adding a thermogenic may compound that. I've heard of at least one person who got very jittery from taking both. But I've also known people who react that way from just a single coup of coffee. So I imagine it all comes down to your individual sensitivity as well as the dosage of each item.

If you've been taking HOT-ROX without any problem, then it's probably fine to continue. But I'd be very careful before upping the amount you take.

Have you been having your blood pressure checked pretty regularly? If your readings have remained in the normal range, it's another indication that you're probably not taking any serious risks by using some HOT-ROX. I think some warnings understandably reflect a "better safe than sorry" mind set.

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coredan
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Hi SS61,

FWIW, I've taken 150mcg thyroxine daily for 8 years and have regularly cycled HOT-ROX during that time. Also, when not 'on cycle' I've found them really useful as a 1-off to combat the 'low-level' blues that us lot get occasionally.

I can personally only tolerate 1 cap twice daily of the latest HR formula, but that's true of some fully-functional people so YMMV.

Judging from others around me, I'd say HR does have a different impact on me than it does on the normos, but the sample size used to generate that opinion (1) is too small for me to 100% stand behind it :)

coredan

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SirenSong61
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Mikael LS wrote:
I wouldnt. I do however think you could talk to your doctor about temporarily increase the dosage. The medications you are taking are probably the same some BB's are using.

BB's are taking Synthroid/Levothyroxine? Or am I misunderstanding?

coredan wrote:
Hi SS61,

FWIW, I've taken 150mcg thyroxine daily for 8 years and have regularly cycled HOT-ROX during that time. Also, when not 'on cycle' I've found them really useful as a 1-off to combat the 'low-level' blues that us lot get occasionally.

I can personally only tolerate 1 cap twice daily of the latest HR formula, but that's true of some fully-functional people so YMMV.

Judging from others around me, I'd say HR does have a different impact on me than it does on the normos, but the sample size used to generate that opinion (1) is too small for me to 100% stand behind it :)

coredan


I swear, I had no idea hypothyroidism gives you a "bluesy" feeling. For about six years, I've always just taken my meds when I awaken in the night (I always have water on my night stand and it's the only time my stomach is completely empty so...) thus, the only time I even consider my condition is when I'm almost completely asleep. Every now and then my "thyroid-thing" comes up in a conversation and people's eyes get wide and they say "You have Hypothyroidism? No wonder you're having trouble with (fill in the blank)!" I've always just taken my pill and never bothered to read about my condition or considered what impact it has on my life. Hmm. I should probably do a little research....

At any rate, I have an awesome doctor so I think I'm going to talk with her about thermogenics and see what she has to say. If she says no she's knowledgeable enough to explain why, one way or the other.

Thanks to everyone for explaining the facts to me.

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valiant knight
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Danger of overheating I imagine.

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7lucky7
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I really wouldnt recommend it, but yes going hyperthyroid would probably cause some weight loss. Though do you really want that edge forskohlii is going to give you at the cost of all the potential sides. Theres a reason they treat hyperthyroidism to make them normo or even hypothyroid. Going hypo (surgery or radiation ablation) and using levothyroxine to bring it back up to normal is the usual treatment for hyperthyroidism.

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coredan
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As a hypothyroid male I'm curious about these responses - can someone please explain to me the difference between persons A and B taking HOT-ROX - where person A has normal thyroid levels naturally, and person B takes prescribed thyroxine to maintain normal levels? ...and then what it is about that difference that means it's unwise to take HOT-ROX?

TIA

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7lucky7
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coredan wrote:
As a hypothyroid male I'm curious about these responses - can someone please explain to me the difference between persons A and B taking HOT-ROX - where person A has normal thyroid levels naturally, and person B takes prescribed thyroxine to maintain normal levels? ...and then what it is about that difference that means it's unwise to take HOT-ROX?

TIA


This is all speculation but..

Person A can auto-regulate their own thyroid production. Person B's level is unable to autoregulate itself as it is already running at a given level, if at all, brought up to normal with supplementation. So could go into hyperthyroidism using forskolin or further depress thyroid production by running hyperthyroid for a bit. Its kept at a normal level by a fixed amount of levothyroxine daily. Person A could reap the other benefits of forskolin (mainly protein kinase A & cAMP increases in different tissues) and his body will autoregulate is thyroid production, which if depressed by running hyperthyroid, could resume normal function afterwards without needing to change medication or permanantly depressing thyroid function further.

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SirenSong61
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coredan wrote:
As a hypothyroid male I'm curious about these responses - can someone please explain to me the difference between persons A and B taking HOT-ROX - where person A has normal thyroid levels naturally, and person B takes prescribed thyroxine to maintain normal levels? ...and then what it is about that difference that means it's unwise to take HOT-ROX?

TIA


I was thinking the same thing. If you're on medication to make you... normal then wouldn't you be the same as people who already are normal and who pop HOT-ROX? Where, then, would be the difference? Though I DO understand the danger of a hypothroidal individual popping HOT-ROX who is not on meds.

I just figured the doctors feel that, since you already have a concrete issue with your thyroid it's best not to aggravate an existing problem.

Don't get me wrong, I'm doing fine without fat burners, It's just one of the things I've wondered about since I was first told by the Biotest folks several months ago to NOT take their product.

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coredan
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Hi 7l7,

I apologise for the very short response, I'm tapping away on an iPhone with poor reception that is perpetually hunting for a signal.

In essence, I think my point is that the hyperthyroidism you describe is no more 'bad' than for a normal person taking it. (if, in fact it is capable of raising the function to supraphysiological levels). On top of that, I'd speculate that most hypothyroid cases are 'mild' and capable of autoregulation to some degree. Finally, you suggest that the hyperthyroidism induced could lead to permanent supression, about which I'd be quite surprised if true.

(Ive got some thoughts on +ive effect of inc. T4-T3 conversion and also the fallacy of long-term suppresion I'd like to discuss critically when I have a better keyboard :)

Thoughts?

...and please bear in mind in all this that I'm biased by my own experiences of repeated happy usage :)

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coredan
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...and please bear in mind in all this that I'm biased by my own experiences of repeated happy usage :)


...oh and of course by the pleasent bliss of in no way being sufficiently informed to have a valid opinion ;D

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7lucky7
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coredan wrote:
Hi 7l7,

I apologise for the very short response, I'm tapping away on an iPhone with poor reception that is perpetually hunting for a signal.

In essence, I think my point is that the hyperthyroidism you describe is no more 'bad' than for a normal person taking it. (if, in fact it is capable of raising the function to supraphysiological levels). On top of that, I'd speculate that most hypothyroid cases are 'mild' and capable of autoregulation to some degree. Finally, you suggest that the hyperthyroidism induced could lead to permanent supression, about which I'd be quite surprised if true.

(Ive got some thoughts on +ive effect of inc. T4-T3 conversion and also the fallacy of long-term suppresion I'd like to discuss critically when I have a better keyboard :)

Thoughts?

...and please bear in mind in all this that I'm biased by my own experiences of repeated happy usage :)


Yeah i dont really know about it in any great detail. What i was thinking was that if a person had autoimmune hypothyroidism (hashimoto's thyroiditis) you dont really want their TSH getting over about 3 because then the body will start to attack the thyroid gland again and send their TSH a bit crazy (making it very hard to maintain a steady level) aswell as giving the associated hyperthyroid symptoms

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Defekt
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Your thyroid is fucked up. You have to ask yourself, it it really a good idea to take anything that is going to fuck with it even more? Think about if your answer is going to be different when you're 60

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coredan
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Hi Defekt (a very apt username for a discussion about people with a rubbish thyroid :),

So you have stated that you believe taking HOT-ROX "fucks with" ones thyroid... Personally I don't believe that to be the case, but moreover I don't currently believe the risk of the aforementioned 'fucking' to be any greater for someone who is receiving prescribed thyroid support than for someone who is not (which is, of course, the purpose of this discussion).

7l7, my point would be that the %age of thyroid cases that are autoimmune is small, therefore a blanket 'not recommended' goes too far...

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7lucky7
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coredan wrote:

7l7, my point would be that the %age of thyroid cases that are autoimmune is small, therefore a blanket 'not recommended' goes too far...



Even if it were a fact that it didn't affect any people with other types of hypothyroidism (which is in no way a given) you might be right, but i still think manufacturers would always use the 'play it safe' option. You know the type of sue-me sue-you blame culture we live in, who can blame them.

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coredan
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7l7, ...oh yeah for sure. If Biotest advised the OP against it, I think that's excellent behaviour on their part ...cause they (may not/ don't) know the definitive answer, and anyway they've got to cover their asses just in case - as you've said.

...but to the original question, is there a difference? I say no unless someone can convince me otherwise.

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Defekt
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coredan wrote:
Hi Defekt (a very apt username for a discussion about people with a rubbish thyroid :),

So you have stated that you believe taking HOT-ROX "fucks with" ones thyroid... Personally I don't believe that to be the case, but moreover I don't currently believe the risk of the aforementioned 'fucking' to be any greater for someone who is receiving prescribed thyroid support than for someone who is not (which is, of course, the purpose of this discussion).

7l7, my point would be that the %age of thyroid cases that are autoimmune is small, therefore a blanket 'not recommended' goes too far...


While nothing definitive can be said in regards to taking HOT-ROX specifically, any drug that changes your physiology is going to have effects throughout your body, large or small. If her thyroid is already kind of wacky it is my opinion that the risks of taking something that revs up your sympathetic nervous system as much as HOT-ROX does not outweigh the benefits. Personally I would just play it safe as no one really knows what the long term effects of this would be on someone who already has a medical issue in that area. Better safe than sorry, in my opinion.

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coredan
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Hi Defekt - out of interest, in your opinion, what are the risks of 'something that revs up your sympathetic nervous system as much as HOT-ROX'? Do they exist for a 'normal' person?

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Defekt
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coredan wrote:
Hi Defekt - out of interest, in your opinion, what are the risks of 'something that revs up your sympathetic nervous system as much as HOT-ROX'? Do they exist for a 'normal' person?


In the short term, probably nothing too substantial. However stimulants put your body under some physiological stress and over the long term I think it can add up. The effects would be anything that accompanies chronic stress (if it gets to that point) such as high cortisol, decreased insulin sensitivity, decreased immune system function ect.

In a healthy individual, over the short term, its unlikely that there would be an abundance of negative side effects although I can see it being a factor for long term users.

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coredan
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There ya go then SS61 - the collective wisdom of teh interwebs has spoken and the answer is a bunch of people who [think that] [something bad] [might] happen, and one bloke who hasn't died (yet :).

...I reckon that advice is worth the joining fee alone ;)

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Defekt
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coredan wrote:
There ya go then SS61 - the collective wisdom of teh interwebs has spoken and the answer is a bunch of people who [think that] [something bad] [might] happen, and one bloke who hasn't died (yet :).

...I reckon that advice is worth the joining fee alone ;)


What is your opinion?

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cowpaddi
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From the product literature for HOT-ROX Extreme it will increase your T3 hormone. This is the more metabolically active thyroid hormone. Talk to your Dr. and have your T3 levels checked. If low you take supplemental T3 to go with the T4 that you are taking. Unfortunately many Dr.'s are of the opinion that if you increase the T4 the body will convert adequate amounts to T3. This is not necessarily the case as the body does produce some T3 directly. The test you want is for T3 Free (unbound and biologically available). You want your results in the upper third for best results.

The earlier reference to hypothyroidism causing the blues is because people with the condition are more prone to depression. But this may not affect you.

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