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methias223
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26

Alex Stoddard wrote:
tork94 wrote:
hey guys, i have been on HCL at 2 caps at my 3 largest meals/day for nearly a year now. what is the average time it takes before you should decrease the dosage. I know that Poliquin mentioned that most people can eventually go down to 1-2/day and some people can stop completely after a while.

Thinking after a year maybe i can reduce from 6 down to maybe 3 or 4/day.

Thanks for any info.

Depends on many factors.
If you have high toxin load (preventing zinc absorption), or if you ate shit and drank sugary drinks for a long time, Charles says it can often take up to 5 years.



yeah, it can take a while. some people, according to poliquin, will never be able to fully go off their HCL because of stress from their jobs. until you pass the HCL test (you get the burning sensation in your stomach) then you just have to stick with it. I have yet to get 'the burn' and ive been taking HCL diligently for about 3 or so years now.

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hungryone
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2004
Posts: 131

I've also noticed some issues with the prolonged duration of the HCL protocol...

Does anyone have any experience fixing stomach acid levels more quickly with Zinc Carnosine? I've heard this is good too, but I personally haven't had a chance to give it a shot.

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harmony72
Level 3

Join date: Dec 2005
Posts: 42

Don't mean to hijack the thread, and no I'm not on Polinquin's bio sig program. I got his uberzinc px and was wondering if I should take it 2x a day instead of 1x stated on the bottle. My nails are ridging as stated as sign of zinc deficient.

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methias223
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26

harmony72 wrote:
Don't mean to hijack the thread, and no I'm not on Polinquin's bio sig program. I got his uberzinc px and was wondering if I should take it 2x a day instead of 1x stated on the bottle. My nails are ridging as stated as sign of zinc deficient.


for severe zinc deficiency the recommended dose is 2 tabs 3x/day. i also heard from a PICP Level 5 coach that the fastest way to replace zinc is to drink 2 zinc tally testers over the course of 48 hours.

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tork94
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

what about Lifenol (hops extract)

I found a great looking product by AOR (very respected brand) which contains DIM, Cal-d, SGS and Lifenol

Obviously the DIM and Cal-d are great. Dont know about the SGS, but from the very small amount of research i have done, i kinda think that Lifenol is something that, as a male, i might want to steer clear of.

Am i wrong?

Thanks


on another note, i had my fat% taken hydrostaticly (gold standard) and found the poluquin to be VERY close, and the jackson/polik to under estimate body fat by a significant measure.

ie, poliquin is much more accurate for me.

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methias223
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26

tork94 wrote:
what about Lifenol (hops extract)

I found a great looking product by AOR (very respected brand) which contains DIM, Cal-d, SGS and Lifenol

Obviously the DIM and Cal-d are great. Dont know about the SGS, but from the very small amount of research i have done, i kinda think that Lifenol is something that, as a male, i might want to steer clear of.

Am i wrong?

Thanks


on another note, i had my fat% taken hydrostaticly (gold standard) and found the poluquin to be VERY close, and the jackson/polik to under estimate body fat by a significant measure.

ie, poliquin is much more accurate for me.


i havent heard too much about lifenol. i can say that ive tried other brands of DIM and had inferior results, so i usually just stick with the good stuff. Designs for Health and Poliquin's DIM seems to be on point as far as their delivery system goes(enhanced bioavailability). Lifenol MIGHT be ok, but doesnt seem like anything worth investing in.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

hey guys, little up date

I competed today and did well considering i never gained back that weight i lost when i got really sick.

Nationals is in 7 weeks, and for me to be at my best I should aim to gain 2-2.5kgs at least, so about 0.5kg every 110-14days or so. I'm planning on training 6-7 times/week over the next several weeks. with a session on Wednesday and Saturday that have a big focus on leg strength and hypertrophy. This will be high volume (at least for a weightlifter) i.e. sets of 6-10 with weight as heavy as I can go with strict form.

I think It makes since to have TWO carb up meals/week if I want to gain weight/strength, and I think it would be logical to have them on the heavy/high volume squat day. My question is that since im training in the morning and evening at least 1 day/week, if I do the hard squat session in the morning, would I have the carb up immediately after, or wait until the second session is finished?

Thanks, and any other advice would be awesome.

also, i now have access to an infrared sauna, and plan to used it 3 times/week, if not more. Should help recovery and maybe help detox a bit.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

any answers for my carb timing question?

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methias223
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26

tork94 wrote:
hey guys, little up date

I competed today and did well considering i never gained back that weight i lost when i got really sick.

Nationals is in 7 weeks, and for me to be at my best I should aim to gain 2-2.5kgs at least, so about 0.5kg every 110-14days or so. I'm planning on training 6-7 times/week over the next several weeks. with a session on Wednesday and Saturday that have a big focus on leg strength and hypertrophy. This will be high volume (at least for a weightlifter) i.e. sets of 6-10 with weight as heavy as I can go with strict form.

I think It makes since to have TWO carb up meals/week if I want to gain weight/strength, and I think it would be logical to have them on the heavy/high volume squat day. My question is that since im training in the morning and evening at least 1 day/week, if I do the hard squat session in the morning, would I have the carb up immediately after, or wait until the second session is finished?

Thanks, and any other advice would be awesome.

also, i now have access to an infrared sauna, and plan to used it 3 times/week, if not more. Should help recovery and maybe help detox a bit.


the guidelines for carbs are if youre OVER 10% bf then ur carb intake is limited to 3 licks of a dried prune, per week;) if under 10%, then you can afford to have a postworkout whey/dextrose shake,which should help you gain muscle. other things to help put on mass quickly would be 30g of fish oil/day, 60-80g glutamine/day, and Immune Supreme by Poliquin.

Poliquin also carries an interesting supplement, its a non-hormonal anabolic called Rhaponticum Excellence. you take 3 caps/day, 1 morn, noon, and evening. from my personal experience it gives me phenomenal recovery after the most brutal workouts. you might want to give that a try, Poliquin seems to think pretty highly of it.

obviously jack up your protein intake, and make sure ur taking hcl as well. carbs arent that critical for muscle gain. theyre helpful but only if your body comp is set first. and it would be best to have your carb up after your second session, youll get better sleep. hope that helps

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

Thanks for your help guys.

I have decided on this diet... (basically the same as the Poliquin plan, but I have carbs slightly more often)

for 3-4 days I will have only protein and fats, with just trace carbs.

On the 4th or 5th day (depending on my bodyweight and training volume/intensity) I will have a "carb-up" where my PWO shake will be the same as the other days but with 50g of fast digesting carbs, and my PWO dinner will also include another 50-60g of "clean" carbs, like beans, yams, sweet potato, quinoa, long grain brown rice etc...

I know its not EXACTLY "Poliquin", but its pretty close except the carb-up frequency is 15-20% more often. (from 5-7 days down to 4-5)

I feel this is a good balance for me, esp since my sub-scap is proportionally one of my best sites.

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hipsr4runnin
Level 4

Join date: Nov 2008
Posts: 713

One of my coaches has recently switched me onto the Samurai diet. Meat and nuts bfast / meat+veggie lunch / meat and a little starchy carbs at night. Its made a REALLY big difference. But you are on the peraformance game so I would switch it more towards using carbs as recovery which can be done in several ways.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

hipsr4runnin wrote:
One of my coaches has recently switched me onto the Samurai diet. Meat and nuts bfast / meat+veggie lunch / meat and a little starchy carbs at night. Its made a REALLY big difference. But you are on the peraformance game so I would switch it more towards using carbs as recovery which can be done in several ways.


so what would you suggest? possibly having some starchy carbs every night with out the carb powder in the shake?

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

my energy is really bad, and i just cant keep me weight on with out resorting to junk. Never had this problem before.

Ever since i got sick 2 months ago, i just have not been the same, energy low, totally un able to gain my weight back. bad sleep etc...

Anyways, i talked to my doctor today and I will be getting a blood test. TSH, FSH, Testosterone, Estradol, and a few other things.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

From the blood test, everything was normal except for high TSH, so more blood tests to look at T4 T3 etc... (also got them to include Vitamin D and magnesium

got the results back from the saliva test.

Looks like there is nothing wrong (from this test) with testosterone or estrogen, but that my adrenals are burnt out.

Estradiol was 1.7 (0.80-6.6) (low normal)
Free test was 140 (43-150) (high normal)
DHEAs was 23 (6-18) (HIGH)

Cortisol in the morning was also at 12 (2-11) which is high, but it PLUMMETS far too fast and remains very low for the rest of the day. this can mean adrenal fatigue

Anyone know what a High DHEAs means or side effects?

The doctor recommended some adaptogenic herbs, and to rest and no caffine for a few weeks. He said i could still train, just back off a bit and some other tips as well

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tork94
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

bump..

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tork94
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

another up-date, my vitamin D was high so i will be taking a bit less of that mag was fine and B12 was REALLY HIGH.

T3/T4 were normal as well

On an other note, i FINALLY taste the zinc in the zinc tally ;)

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redgladiator
Level 5

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 996

Out of curiosity how much worth of supplements does biosignature typically recommend per month?

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tork94
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

redgladiator wrote:
Out of curiosity how much worth of supplements does biosignature typically recommend per month?


cant really answer this, for me i really only use poliquin HCL, zinc and mag. so not too much. I did use the poliquin DIM and Cal-d in high doses for about 6 weeks about a year ago which was atleast $300 for the 6 weeks.

depends on your needs and if you can find a similar product in your health food store/online

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

i have decided to retire from olympic weightlifting. i just dont think im build for the sport.

I will keep my up-dates coming as a develop a plan that more closely resembles working out to look and feel good as opposed to pure strength.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

any Poliquin guys out there on this forum that can point me to a good weight program that i can follow. I haven't done traditional strength or bodybuilding training for 6 years now.

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Bonesaw93
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2010
Posts: 356

tork94 wrote:
any Poliquin guys out there on this forum that can point me to a good weight program that i can follow. I haven't done traditional strength or bodybuilding training for 6 years now.


If you're looking to put on some size you may want to check out some of Poliquin's stuff on Advanced German Volume training. I took the idea and altered my current program to include it. It actually has worked very well. Actually helped me bring up some weak points.

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tork94
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

Bonesaw93 wrote:
tork94 wrote:
any Poliquin guys out there on this forum that can point me to a good weight program that i can follow. I haven't done traditional strength or bodybuilding training for 6 years now.


If you're looking to put on some size you may want to check out some of Poliquin's stuff on Advanced German Volume training. I took the idea and altered my current program to include it. It actually has worked very well. Actually helped me bring up some weak points.


thanks man! however, i really dont think i can handle GVT right at this moment as my knee is still not 100% from past injuries and i have been only doing sets of 1-5 for a VERY LONG time.

I think im going to try the german body comp for athletes program from poliquins site (cant post the link here)

Its still high volume (10-15 reps) but only 3-5 sets/exercise. Im sure ill feel like dieing the first few weeks, but it just seems slightly more reasonable then GVT

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Bonesaw93
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2010
Posts: 356

tork94 wrote:
Bonesaw93 wrote:
tork94 wrote:
any Poliquin guys out there on this forum that can point me to a good weight program that i can follow. I haven't done traditional strength or bodybuilding training for 6 years now.


If you're looking to put on some size you may want to check out some of Poliquin's stuff on Advanced German Volume training. I took the idea and altered my current program to include it. It actually has worked very well. Actually helped me bring up some weak points.


thanks man! however, i really dont think i can handle GVT right at this moment as my knee is still not 100% from past injuries and i have been only doing sets of 1-5 for a VERY LONG time.

I think im going to try the german body comp for athletes program from poliquins site (cant post the link here)

Its still high volume (10-15 reps) but only 3-5 sets/exercise. Im sure ill feel like dieing the first few weeks, but it just seems slightly more reasonable then GVT


Oh I was talking about his advanced GVT. You can find the protocol on his site. I used some of the principals mixed into my workout (I steal from everywhere haha). Sets are all under 5 reps for main lifts. It's on Poliquin's site if you search for it. Main idea is 10x5 week 1, 10x4 week 2, 10x3 week 3, repeat 3 weeks. On his site he details how to progress.

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tork94
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1020

Actually that looks AWESOME! thanks for they post, Im enjoying the german body comp for athletes so far although im only in the gym for 1 hour including warm up, im working REALLY hard imo. gonna throw in some sprints on one of the off days and see how this can re-comp my body. got skin folds done today and will again in another 5 weeks when i finish the 6 week program.

after that I plan to start the advanced GVT, looks hard but great.

One other question for you (or anyone really), on the German body comp for athletes program, Ai on Friday is 10/6 for snatch dead lifts from the podium. now my back is already very strong, and I would prefer to target the legs over the back/posterior chain, do you think it would be ok to do back squats instead? they work similar muscles, but back squat would obviously target my weakness more then the deads...

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wannabebig250
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Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 769

any adverse effects from the high dose zinc from the earlier pages? were you running copper too? positive effects?

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