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Gut Health! Sort of a Log
 

FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
... snip ...



I posted an SIBO protocol that I had MAJOR success with a few pages back


Cheers, mate. If only things were that simple.

For starters:
- I can control the symptoms
- It's with repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria that I haven't had success with

Also:
- I've already tried SBO's - no luck, there
- same goes for S. Boulardii
- dito fermented stuff

To cap it off:
- NAC didn't do zilch for me
- Peppermint Oil (ent. coated, ofc) gives me GERD (but it's powerful, at least en par with oil of oregano)

There's no one size fits all solution to it.
Glad it worked out for you, though.





yeah man, I didn't mean to imply that it was a one size fits all. I was lucky that the protocol worked for me, but I understand it won't work for everyone.

In any case, check out this link

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspo...

and the other stuff on her website. Hopefully you'll find something there that can help

EDIT: what about resistant starch? Have you experimented with that? It should, over time, repopulate your gut and flush out all the badness


Thanks for the link (I should've noticed it earlier on).
Will give RS another try in the future. My last trial didn't go too well, so I'm giving it my all to repopulate my gut with Elixa, first.

Speaking of which: been on Elixa for 4 days, now.
- diarrhea receded
- much faster digestion, multiple times a day as opposed to 1-2 sessions
- tired to no end: good I took a few days off work. I'm sleeping at least 10h a day as opposed to my usual 6. Too tired to train/fuck/eat. Have to force myself to eat, actually.
- less bloating overall: I can even get away with eating oat bran (sans milk, of course). Still not ready for copious amounts of oat, though.
- less lower back pain, more supple e. spinae and hip muscles. Pretty sure this is due to my LI feeling much better. Haven't felt that good in that region for 4 years, now

Will do another 4 days of Elixa.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
... snip ...



I posted an SIBO protocol that I had MAJOR success with a few pages back


Cheers, mate. If only things were that simple.

For starters:
- I can control the symptoms
- It's with repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria that I haven't had success with

Also:
- I've already tried SBO's - no luck, there
- same goes for S. Boulardii
- dito fermented stuff

To cap it off:
- NAC didn't do zilch for me
- Peppermint Oil (ent. coated, ofc) gives me GERD (but it's powerful, at least en par with oil of oregano)

There's no one size fits all solution to it.
Glad it worked out for you, though.





yeah man, I didn't mean to imply that it was a one size fits all. I was lucky that the protocol worked for me, but I understand it won't work for everyone.

In any case, check out this link

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspo...

and the other stuff on her website. Hopefully you'll find something there that can help

EDIT: what about resistant starch? Have you experimented with that? It should, over time, repopulate your gut and flush out all the badness


Thanks for the link (I should've noticed it earlier on).
Will give RS another try in the future. My last trial didn't go too well, so I'm giving it my all to repopulate my gut with Elixa, first.

Speaking of which: been on Elixa for 4 days, now.
- diarrhea receded
- much faster digestion, multiple times a day as opposed to 1-2 sessions
- tired to no end: good I took a few days off work. I'm sleeping at least 10h a day as opposed to my usual 6. Too tired to train/fuck/eat. Have to force myself to eat, actually.
- less bloating overall: I can even get away with eating oat bran (sans milk, of course). Still not ready for copious amounts of oat, though.
- less lower back pain, more supple e. spinae and hip muscles. Pretty sure this is due to my LI feeling much better. Haven't felt that good in that region for 4 years, now

Will do another 4 days of Elixa.



mate I wouldn't drop the elixa so soon if it's having those benefits

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60

FattyFat wrote:

Speaking of which: been on Elixa for 4 days, now.
- diarrhea receded
- much faster digestion, multiple times a day as opposed to 1-2 sessions
- tired to no end: good I took a few days off work. I'm sleeping at least 10h a day as opposed to my usual 6. Too tired to train/fuck/eat. Have to force myself to eat, actually.
- less bloating overall: I can even get away with eating oat bran (sans milk, of course). Still not ready for copious amounts of oat, though.
- less lower back pain, more supple e. spinae and hip muscles. Pretty sure this is due to my LI feeling much better. Haven't felt that good in that region for 4 years, now

Will do another 4 days of Elixa.



Wow! Awesome!
Looking forward to the update in a few days :)

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

Oh hai thar!

Here's the lowdown after 8 days of Elixa (including two double doses):
- much better digestion
- able to tolerate certain foods, again (oat bran, taters, I'm looking at you, my long lost loves!)
- next to no bloat after drinking whey protein shakes (with water) - whey protein per shake approx. 60 g
- fuller, harder muscles (if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's improved nutrition partitioning)
- considerably LESS water retention
- for a few days, I had to dial down my T4/T3 (I'm hypothyroid) because I had insta-short-tempaz (very atypical of me) - well, we know that some T4 gets converted to T3 in the intestine (not sure whether SI or LI) ...
- I get irascible and brain foggy when my blood sugar is down: this is pretty new to me
- I've dropped some fat along the way, although I hardly trained

Given my adrenal fatigue (yeah, forgot to mention that: I'm pretty much a broken system, but wanted to focus on the probiotic side of things out of respect for this thread: my scientific training sure comes in handy between self-prolotherapy, labs, optimizing hormone levels and taking care of my adrenal fatigue), I still have to take care to sleep enough. Lack of sleep has quite a noticeable impact on water retention and digestion. Cool thing, though: the impact seems to be a lot smaller now.

Bottom line:
- Elixa definitely did something for me
- I hope it's gonna last
- I've enough Elixa for another 10 days left
- the symptoms listed above are just that: symptoms: from a dependency management perspective, there are just too many variables to make an accurate diagnosis. Shit is just too obfuscated, right now. Will have to weed shit out, step by step

Still, in hindsight, I can say this: fixing my microbiome had a very strong impact and is definitely one of the fundamental building blocks to improve (my) quality of life and performance.

If there's interest, I could list my journey (started in 2011) in a separate thread.
It would cover things such as
- adrenal fatigue
- serious joint repair / regrowth techniques
- the impact the endocrine system has on joint repair / wound healing
- training around debilitating injuries
- going from super smart (yes, I hate false modesty) to losing mental prowess (and almost a whole language in the process whilst developing stuttering) back to smarty (and super smart on good days, only)
- this would be very subjective, though. For most things, N was/is in the lower single digits.

Caveat:
- this would be a hodgepodge of seemingly disparate things the interdependencies of which I've only uncovered as I went along
- and I'm pretty sure that amongst the stuff pertinent to my situation what I don't know greatly outweighs what I know

Ready-2-Learn and _Yogi_: thanks, guys. You literally saved my ass (diarrhea creates fertile ground for hemorrhoids and perianal hematoma).



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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

Well I, for one, would very much like to read that thread.

Apparently berberine is good for adrenals

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60

FattyFat wrote:
Oh hai thar!

Here's the lowdown after 8 days of Elixa (including two double doses):
- much better digestion
- able to tolerate certain foods, again (oat bran, taters, I'm looking at you, my long lost loves!)
- next to no bloat after drinking whey protein shakes (with water) - whey protein per shake approx. 60 g
- fuller, harder muscles (if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's improved nutrition partitioning)
- considerably LESS water retention
- for a few days, I had to dial down my T4/T3 (I'm hypothyroid) because I had insta-short-tempaz (very atypical of me) - well, we know that some T4 gets converted to T3 in the intestine (not sure whether SI or LI) ...
- I get irascible and brain foggy when my blood sugar is down: this is pretty new to me
- I've dropped some fat along the way, although I hardly trained

Given my adrenal fatigue (yeah, forgot to mention that: I'm pretty much a broken system, but wanted to focus on the probiotic side of things out of respect for this thread: my scientific training sure comes in handy between self-prolotherapy, labs, optimizing hormone levels and taking care of my adrenal fatigue), I still have to take care to sleep enough. Lack of sleep has quite a noticeable impact on water retention and digestion. Cool thing, though: the impact seems to be a lot smaller now.

Bottom line:
- Elixa definitely did something for me
- I hope it's gonna last
- I've enough Elixa for another 10 days left
- the symptoms listed above are just that: symptoms: from a dependency management perspective, there are just too many variables to make an accurate diagnosis. Shit is just too obfuscated, right now. Will have to weed shit out, step by step

Still, in hindsight, I can say this: fixing my microbiome had a very strong impact and is definitely one of the fundamental building blocks to improve (my) quality of life and performance.

If there's interest, I could list my journey (started in 2011) in a separate thread.
It would cover things such as
- adrenal fatigue
- serious joint repair / regrowth techniques
- the impact the endocrine system has on joint repair / wound healing
- training around debilitating injuries
- going from super smart (yes, I hate false modesty) to losing mental prowess (and almost a whole language in the process whilst developing stuttering) back to smarty (and super smart on good days, only)
- this would be very subjective, though. For most things, N was/is in the lower single digits.

Caveat:
- this would be a hodgepodge of seemingly disparate things the interdependencies of which I've only uncovered as I went along
- and I'm pretty sure that amongst the stuff pertinent to my situation what I don't know greatly outweighs what I know

Ready-2-Learn and _Yogi_: thanks, guys. You literally saved my ass (diarrhea creates fertile ground for hemorrhoids and perianal hematoma).





Wow, Great stuff mate. Thanks for the update! It's great to read a thorough review. Very comprehensive.
I thought I was imagining some of those other benefits until you said it just now. My leanness/vascularity/muscle hardness went off the charts. I was laughing thinking about the Family Guy episode where Stewie walks around flexing and keeps saying 'vasssssscular'.

My mental state really improved too. No more down/depressed feelings at late afternoon. Nice and steady and not fluctuating between high excitement and low fatigued mood. (And it was quite bad for me; it practically writes the rest of the day off in terms of clarity of thought and focus)

No other probiotic had any effect on me. And yet Elixa has got to be one of the 3-4 supplements I've ever taken where I hands-down noticed a significant effect. (the others being zinc, caffeine (obviously) & psyllium husk)

I'm very (over)perceptive so I actually avoided mentioning the other general improvements I felt because it would have sounded a bit unbelievable. Good to know I wasn't imagining thing ;)

P.S. I for one would also be interested in that thread of yours you mentioned.

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

_Yogi_ wrote:
Apparently berberine is good for adrenals


Cheers, mate!
Berberine is all but a panacea, apparently.

I wouldn't even mind its catabolic effects but for one thing: Berberine is also a potent antimicrobial, as you're well aware of. So, for now, it's a no-no. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure that my overdosing on Berberine-HCL in 2011 led to my fucked-up microbiome.


Ready-2-Learn wrote:

Wow, Great stuff mate. Thanks for the update! It's great to read a thorough review. Very comprehensive.
I thought I was imagining some of those other benefits until you said it just now. My leanness/vascularity/muscle hardness went off the charts. I was laughing thinking about the Family Guy episode where Stewie walks around flexing and keeps saying 'vasssssscular'.

My mental state really improved too. No more down/depressed feelings at late afternoon. Nice and steady and not fluctuating between high excitement and low fatigued mood. (And it was quite bad for me; it practically writes the rest of the day off in terms of clarity of thought and focus)

No other probiotic had any effect on me. And yet Elixa has got to be one of the 3-4 supplements I've ever taken where I hands-down noticed a significant effect. (the others being zinc, caffeine (obviously) & psyllium husk)

I'm very (over)perceptive so I actually avoided mentioning the other general improvements I felt because it would have sounded a bit unbelievable. Good to know I wasn't imagining thing ;)

P.S. I for one would also be interested in that thread of yours you mentioned.


I'm glad Elixa also did so many good things for you, mate.

I forgot to mention another perk:
for the first time in 4 years, I'm able to really feel my abs work, especially the lower abs. I became quite hyperlordotic since 2011 and try as I might, I couldn't get them to fire properly. Since having done the Elixa thingy, my lower abs are constantly sore. They're finally firing properly, again.


As for the thread I mentioned: I still have to mull over how best to do it.
There are a few obstacles, e.g.

(1) where shall I post it? It doesn't fit in any one category (Injuries / Supplements / Training)

(2) Will also have to think about the 'release' format, as it were: can't just do one heroic info dump - this will make referencing minutiae quite difficult and messy. Especially from a dependency management perspective.

(3) Also, there might be legal ramifications. For instance, I'd like to have final say about what I post.


Once I've decided on a course of action, I'll let you know in this very thread.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
Apparently berberine is good for adrenals


Cheers, mate!
Berberine is all but a panacea, apparently.

I wouldn't even mind its catabolic effects but for one thing: Berberine is also a potent antimicrobial, as you're well aware of. So, for now, it's a no-no. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure that my overdosing on Berberine-HCL in 2011 led to my fucked-up microbiome.



That's interesting. I didn't find out until after I'd done the protocol that berberine is catabolic. In any case, whether or not the berberine actually helped the protocol was a success.

Your SIBO sounds a thousand times worse than mine was, though. I feel for you dude.

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60

FattyFat wrote:

I forgot to mention another perk:
for the first time in 4 years, I'm able to really feel my abs work, especially the lower abs. I became quite hyperlordotic since 2011 and try as I might, I couldn't get them to fire properly. Since having done the Elixa thingy, my lower abs are constantly sore. They're finally firing properly, again.




You really think the probiotic was the cause of that?! :O
I mean... there's A LOT of scientific studies/research about the link between the gut microbiome and our nervous system (serotonin, vagus nerve, depression, etc.) but this seems so specific!

I have a feeling that there's just a load of random little things that I didn't perceive until after several days.

Hippocrates said 'All disease starts in the gut'... maybe he knew something way before his time! :P

I've learned there are all these MASSIVE science projects to do with gut health. They are doing something similar to the human genome project, where they are now mapping all the bacteria's genomes from our body.

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MinusTheColon
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Join date: Dec 2014
Posts: 117

Doesn't it seem like a completely disproportionate number of people on these boards have bizarre and uncommon health problems? (speaking as someone who had to have almost all of his colon removed)

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

MinusTheColon wrote:
Doesn't it seem like a completely disproportionate number of people on these boards have bizarre and uncommon health problems? (speaking as someone who had to have almost all of his colon removed)


I think people that frequent these sort of forums are just a bit more serious about optimising their health, so instead of just putting up with things like feeling sick all the time like a lot of people do, they research and try and fix the issues.

That's my theory, anyway...

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FattyFat
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

_Yogi_ wrote:
MinusTheColon wrote:
Doesn't it seem like a completely disproportionate number of people on these boards have bizarre and uncommon health problems? (speaking as someone who had to have almost all of his colon removed)


I think people that frequent these sort of forums are just a bit more serious about optimising their health, so instead of just putting up with things like feeling sick all the time like a lot of people do, they research and try and fix the issues.

That's my theory, anyway...

+1

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FattyFat
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

Further tales from the crypt, fellas.
Did a stress test, today.

Breakfast
- 150 g oat bran in the morning mixed with 60 g of whey protein and 100 ml of rice milk
=> all clear, no bloat

Lunch
- 250 g of rice waffleswith 100 g of cheese and 300 g of lean ham
=> all clear, no bloat

Didn't eat until evening and started the stress test for real:
- 100 g of rice waffles
- 250 g of crispbread (you know, roughly 15 % fiber)
- 100 g salami
- 300 g lean ham
- 400 g chicken breast
- 500 g potatoes

Washed everything down with half a litre of soy choc milk (I don't like soy stuff, but it's not making me tired like dairy does) and a full litre of cold water. Chalk up the choc / sugar content to me feeling adventurous.
Boy, was I sporting a round belly in the aftermath. ( - _ - )

=> t + 1h: everything was fine and dandy. No bloat, only fullness on account of having gorged myself
=> t + 2h: belly was almost as flat as it is after waking up and laying down a herculean log

A few months ago, just eating the rice waffles would've bloated me up to no end.

Next: potato starch, psyllium husk





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Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4938

Is there something like a basics to gut health book that's any good? I see what ya'll are doing and it looks like it can get pretty complicated. I just wanna start simple and add complexity as needed.

My issue is closest to IBS. Stress and lack of sleep will wreak more havock on my guy than anything but too much non-soluble fiber can cause flair ups too. Spicy food won't cause issues but can make them worse when I'm already having issues. The only sure-fire way to control this was with a low-dose of an anti-depressant amitryptaline I took for a year a while and it cured it maybe 75% and it's still getting slowly better on its own now.

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MinusTheColon
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Join date: Dec 2014
Posts: 117

FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
MinusTheColon wrote:
Doesn't it seem like a completely disproportionate number of people on these boards have bizarre and uncommon health problems? (speaking as someone who had to have almost all of his colon removed)


I think people that frequent these sort of forums are just a bit more serious about optimising their health, so instead of just putting up with things like feeling sick all the time like a lot of people do, they research and try and fix the issues.

That's my theory, anyway...

+1



Lol, I think most here (looking in mirror) probably at some point push things to extremes with diet that without their fully realizing it wreaks havoc. I just think viewing the issues described in threads like this as "normal," given how many seem to experience them on these boards, smells of the "of course it's not *our* problem. It's them!" school of denial....

Not meaning to troll or flame, but just an observation that this thread gave another example of.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

MinusTheColon wrote:
Lol, I think most here (looking in mirror) probably at some point push things to extremes with diet that without their fully realizing it wreaks havoc. I just think viewing the issues described in threads like this as "normal," given how many seem to experience them on these boards, smells of the "of course it's not *our* problem. It's them!" school of denial....


I don't really understand what you mean

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60

FattyFat wrote:
Further tales from the crypt, fellas.
Did a stress test, today.

Breakfast
- 150 g oat bran in the morning mixed with 60 g of whey protein and 100 ml of rice milk
=> all clear, no bloat

Lunch
- 250 g of rice waffleswith 100 g of cheese and 300 g of lean ham
=> all clear, no bloat

Didn't eat until evening and started the stress test for real:
- 100 g of rice waffles
- 250 g of crispbread (you know, roughly 15 % fiber)
- 100 g salami
- 300 g lean ham
- 400 g chicken breast
- 500 g potatoes

Washed everything down with half a litre of soy choc milk (I don't like soy stuff, but it's not making me tired like dairy does) and a full litre of cold water. Chalk up the choc / sugar content to me feeling adventurous.
Boy, was I sporting a round belly in the aftermath. ( - _ - )

=> t + 1h: everything was fine and dandy. No bloat, only fullness on account of having gorged myself
=> t + 2h: belly was almost as flat as it is after waking up and laying down a herculean log

A few months ago, just eating the rice waffles would've bloated me up to no end.

Next: potato starch, psyllium husk




Wow! Holy crap! That's awesome. I always think back to that enema story (LOL) you wrote and think this transformation is huge!!!!
Is this from the probiotic?? :O

P.s. Consider adding Inulin to that list of upcoming tests.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2941

this is quite an interesting article about fecal transplants (eewwww)

www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/woman-becomes-obese-after-fecal-transplant-overweight-donor

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1384

Thanks for sharing, BroYogi.

Just a quick tip to whom it may concern:
- the other day, I started to look bloated again in my lower right abdominal area
- I suspected an old enemy to be the culprit and, lo and behold, I was right: it was my ileocecal valve. Pressing slightly above where the ICV was for about 2 min does the trick. Sucker didn't want to open/close appropriately.

The bloat disappeared after that.

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