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Gut Health! Sort of a Log
 

WhiteFlash
Level 1

Join date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9746

Any thoughts on kombucha?

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 56

StevenF wrote:
not sure what FOS and GOS is. I think its a gut bacteria imbalance of some sort as well but I'm just a layperson. I know the Elixa probiotics seemed to produce good results as far as getting things moving. Miralax + Prune juice does nothing, Psyllium Husk + Potato starch does nothing, coffee does nothing.


FOS is fructooligosaccharides. It is quite easy to get hold of online. It's usually called Inulin. It's on amazon, ebay and other websites that sell supplements.
GOS is galactooligosaccharides and it's harder to get hold of and hasn't been around as long.
When you try FOS you need to ramp up very slowly to avoid gas issues. If you are going to try it then I would advise you start at half a teaspoon (a level teaspoon, not heaped), increasing by half a teaspoon per day (or every other day) up to about 3 teaspoons (i.e. 1 tablespoon) per day and see how that goes.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

StevenF wrote:
not sure what FOS and GOS is. I think its a gut bacteria imbalance of some sort as well but I'm just a layperson. I know the Elixa probiotics seemed to produce good results as far as getting things moving. Miralax + Prune juice does nothing, Psyllium Husk + Potato starch does nothing, coffee does nothing.


it's actually probably best to avoid coffee. Doesn't always react favourably with people's gut flora

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

Any thoughts on a probiotic with these ingredients?

Betaine HCL 400mg
Pepsin 140mg
Alpha Amylase 100mg
Lactobacillus Casei 2 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 2 Billion CFU
Bifidobacterium Bifidum 1.4 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Plantarum 1.4 Billion CFU
Bacillus Coagulans 1 Billion CFU

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

Diddy Ryder wrote:
Any thoughts on a probiotic with these ingredients?

Betaine HCL 400mg
Pepsin 140mg
Alpha Amylase 100mg
Lactobacillus Casei 2 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 2 Billion CFU
Bifidobacterium Bifidum 1.4 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Plantarum 1.4 Billion CFU
Bacillus Coagulans 1 Billion CFU


lactobacillus acidophilus can apparently contribute to SIBO (my old nemesis) in some people, so there's that to consider. Probably be ok, but maybe not.

I'd go for Prescript Assist, personally.

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MatthewMM
Level 100

Join date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1

Not sure if this was mentioned before (hard to read the entire thread) but the Glutamine should be cycled out and with no need to keep doses high for a while.

I noticed the best results from going 80g for 3 days then 60g for 2-3 then down to 40g, 20 and I maintain with 10-15 depending on my workouts and symptoms.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

MatthewMM wrote:
Not sure if this was mentioned before (hard to read the entire thread) but the Glutamine should be cycled out and with no need to keep doses high for a while.


what makes you say that? What are the benefits to cycling it as opposed to just using it daily?

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

_Yogi_ wrote:
Diddy Ryder wrote:
Any thoughts on a probiotic with these ingredients?

Betaine HCL 400mg
Pepsin 140mg
Alpha Amylase 100mg
Lactobacillus Casei 2 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 2 Billion CFU
Bifidobacterium Bifidum 1.4 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Plantarum 1.4 Billion CFU
Bacillus Coagulans 1 Billion CFU


lactobacillus acidophilus can apparently contribute to SIBO (my old nemesis) in some people, so there's that to consider. Probably be ok, but maybe not.

I'd go for Prescript Assist, personally.


Cheers Yogi. I bought a month's worth so will see how it goes and hope I don't catch your SIBO lol

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1370

Posted about my SIBO ailments on page 10 of this thread, last year.

To cut a long story short:

#1 I know how to decimate my microbiome, but wasn't successful in repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria.
- I can control the symptoms and get rid of them in a matter of hours (might not sound like much, but it returned a great deal of control over my life)
- my nutrition is pretty much low carb, high protein, medium fat
- I only tolerate fast digesting carbs: enter jasmin rice and dextrose
- I tolerate some greens: rucola, valerianella, bell pepper, cherry tomatoes, some zuccini and eggplant (occasionally), some cucumber
- everything else is a no-no: no taters, no fruit, onion, garlic, NO LEGUMES, no nuts, no dairy (apart from a special brand of whey protein mixed in water)


#2 Most effective antimicrobials in descending order - from my point of view, so N=1
- rifaximin (a prescription oral antibiotic - quite expensive - see my post on page 10)
- oil of oregano (enterically coated)
- caprylic acid (ent. coated)
- peppermint oil (ent. coated)
- monolaurin pellets
- berberine hcl


#3 Probiotics
- strangely, lb. acidophilus helped me tolerate whey shakes, again
- prescript assist fucked me up pretty good
- bifidum bacteria fucked me up even worse: constipation symptoms from a mechanical pov, albeit with slimy stool
- s. boulardii led to the same symptoms as bif. bacteria


I'd appreciate any input you SIBO conquistadores can share:
What I gleaned after browsing through this thread (didn't read all of it):
- looking into resistant starch (and the various types)
- Elixa probiotic

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 56

Diddy Ryder wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
Diddy Ryder wrote:
Any thoughts on a probiotic with these ingredients?

Betaine HCL 400mg
Pepsin 140mg
Alpha Amylase 100mg
Lactobacillus Casei 2 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 2 Billion CFU
Bifidobacterium Bifidum 1.4 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Plantarum 1.4 Billion CFU
Bacillus Coagulans 1 Billion CFU


lactobacillus acidophilus can apparently contribute to SIBO (my old nemesis) in some people, so there's that to consider. Probably be ok, but maybe not.

I'd go for Prescript Assist, personally.


Cheers Yogi. I bought a month's worth so will see how it goes and hope I don't catch your SIBO lol


Hi Diddy,
Two comments on that list your posted:
1. The number of CFU is very low (i count just under 8 Billion total)
2. Bacillus Coagulans is not something well designed to benefit the gut imo.

I was going to advise strongly against going with an SBO. I don't buy the theory that we are supposed to get our microbiome by eating dirt. It's thoroughly documented that the primary way the human's microbiome comes about is via natural birth and subsequent breast-feeding.

But results are all that matter, so let us know how it goes for you and good luck :)

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

FattyFat wrote:
Posted about my SIBO ailments on page 10 of this thread, last year.

To cut a long story short:

#1 I know how to decimate my microbiome, but wasn't successful in repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria.
- I can control the symptoms and get rid of them in a matter of hours (might not sound like much, but it returned a great deal of control over my life)
- my nutrition is pretty much low carb, high protein, medium fat
- I only tolerate fast digesting carbs: enter jasmin rice and dextrose
- I tolerate some greens: rucola, valerianella, bell pepper, cherry tomatoes, some zuccini and eggplant (occasionally), some cucumber
- everything else is a no-no: no taters, no fruit, onion, garlic, NO LEGUMES, no nuts, no dairy (apart from a special brand of whey protein mixed in water)


#2 Most effective antimicrobials in descending order - from my point of view, so N=1
- rifaximin (a prescription oral antibiotic - quite expensive - see my post on page 10)
- oil of oregano (enterically coated)
- caprylic acid (ent. coated)
- peppermint oil (ent. coated)
- monolaurin pellets
- berberine hcl


#3 Probiotics
- strangely, lb. acidophilus helped me tolerate whey shakes, again
- prescript assist fucked me up pretty good
- bifidum bacteria fucked me up even worse: constipation symptoms from a mechanical pov, albeit with slimy stool
- s. boulardii led to the same symptoms as bif. bacteria


I'd appreciate any input you SIBO conquistadores can share:
What I gleaned after browsing through this thread (didn't read all of it):
- looking into resistant starch (and the various types)
- Elixa probiotic



I posted an SIBO protocol that I had MAJOR success with a few pages back

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 56

FattyFat wrote:
Posted about my SIBO ailments on page 10 of this thread, last year.

To cut a long story short:

#1 I know how to decimate my microbiome, but wasn't successful in repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria.
- I can control the symptoms and get rid of them in a matter of hours (might not sound like much, but it returned a great deal of control over my life)
- my nutrition is pretty much low carb, high protein, medium fat
- I only tolerate fast digesting carbs: enter jasmin rice and dextrose
- I tolerate some greens: rucola, valerianella, bell pepper, cherry tomatoes, some zuccini and eggplant (occasionally), some cucumber
- everything else is a no-no: no taters, no fruit, onion, garlic, NO LEGUMES, no nuts, no dairy (apart from a special brand of whey protein mixed in water)


#2 Most effective antimicrobials in descending order - from my point of view, so N=1
- rifaximin (a prescription oral antibiotic - quite expensive - see my post on page 10)
- oil of oregano (enterically coated)
- caprylic acid (ent. coated)
- peppermint oil (ent. coated)
- monolaurin pellets
- berberine hcl


#3 Probiotics
- strangely, lb. acidophilus helped me tolerate whey shakes, again
- prescript assist fucked me up pretty good
- bifidum bacteria fucked me up even worse: constipation symptoms from a mechanical pov, albeit with slimy stool
- s. boulardii led to the same symptoms as bif. bacteria


I'd appreciate any input you SIBO conquistadores can share:
What I gleaned after browsing through this thread (didn't read all of it):
- looking into resistant starch (and the various types)
- Elixa probiotic



Do i recall correctly in that you are the poster who wrote about the enema/bloating/suit/meeting episode? Wow, that was an entertaining story, bud. Really sorry to hear how bad it is for you!! It sounds like you have a totally screwed up gut.

I can associate with you because I used to have pretty bad IBS and I tried quite a few things you have (including a tonne of rifaximin, which I think screwed me over more)

'I only tolerate fast digesting carbs: enter jasmin rice and dextrose'

I was the same. When your gut is f*cked up, you gotta avoid as much FODMAPs as possible. It's just feeding the dysbiosis. If your gut is healthy, fiber is good. If it's not healthy, than fiber will likely fuel that.

I think resistant starch may NOT work so well for you. It is pretty much the perfect example of a FODMAP. But, then again, I think not all fermentable fibers act the same way. Some are worse than others and perhaps for some specific cases of gut dysbiosis, some fibers are actually beneficial...
Worth a trial, at some point.

If i were you, I would not continue the route of nuking all your gut bacteria to death and then replenishing them with good stuff. It's too risky and there is no 'full-spectrum' probiotic out there (other than a faecal microbiota transplant), so you may wipe out some unknown gut bugs that are not available in probiotics and are not easily gorwn back - which will just make your recovery harder.

My advice is to hit two birds with one stone using Elixa that you mentioned. It's the only one that gets anywhere close to the amount of CFUs I needed. (although yours sounds worse than mine was!). The bacteria in it have their own specialised methods of killing non-beneficial organisms (bacteriocins, competitive exclusion, etc) and they do NOT nuke the other beneficial bacteria (because we've all been evolving together peacefully in mutually beneficial coexistence for a million years... before antibiotics came and spoiled the party)

I would take a bunch of Elixa, stick to a low-FODMAP diet like you're doing (except reduce the veg a bit) and see how things go from there. When you want to start reintroducing fiber you should consider doing it in a scientific and controlled manner, i.e. via supplement form. So you could start with tiny amounts of inulin/psyllium/resistant starch and work up from there.

2 drastic recommendations if you are up for it:

1. Do a total water fast while taking Elixa (you might even need to double up on dosage after a few days). What I mean by water fast, is don't consume anything other than water. That way your current crop of gut bacteria will be reduced as much as possible (could even do an enema to speed up the effect of starving them). That means the probiotics in Elixa will have less of a force to go up against once they get to your L.I. You could try the fast for just a day (but maybe you should take double dose throughout that day instead of one per day) and then start eating again on the second day AFTER the next dose (or double dose of Elixa). That way you will get to take 2 doses (or 4 if you double up) on a completely empty digestive tract. I.e. the numbers in the capsules will now be higher relative to the amount waiting for them in your gut.

2. Investigate faecal transplants... I'll leave it at that ;)

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

Ready-2-Learn wrote:
Hi Diddy,
Two comments on that list your posted:
1. The number of CFU is very low (i count just under 8 Billion total)
2. Bacillus Coagulans is not something well designed to benefit the gut imo.

I was going to advise strongly against going with an SBO. I don't buy the theory that we are supposed to get our microbiome by eating dirt. It's thoroughly documented that the primary way the human's microbiome comes about is via natural birth and subsequent breast-feeding.

But results are all that matter, so let us know how it goes for you and good luck :)


Hi Ready,

Hmm thanks for the input.

What would be a "normal" number of CFU? The brand boasts about the "almost 8bn CFU per day!".

FWIW, I'm just taking this as a general health supplement to see if it does any noticeable good. I don't have a specific problem I'm looking to resolve. Just being my own guinea pig :)

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Dr. Pangloss
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3749

Diddy Ryder wrote:
Any thoughts on a probiotic with these ingredients?

Betaine HCL 400mg
Pepsin 140mg
Alpha Amylase 100mg
Lactobacillus Casei 2 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 2 Billion CFU
Bifidobacterium Bifidum 1.4 Billion CFU
Lactobacillus Plantarum 1.4 Billion CFU
Bacillus Coagulans 1 Billion CFU


The first 3 ingredients are digestive enzymes. I only bring this up because you may find that you can get more, cheaper, by pricing out digestive enzymes and probiotics separately.

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

Cheers Doc. The price wasn't really an issue as it was only 10 for a month's worth.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

Diddy Ryder wrote:
Cheers Doc. The price wasn't really an issue as it was only £10 for a month's worth.


well check out mr la dee da howard rockefeller hughes over here

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

_Yogi_ wrote:
Diddy Ryder wrote:
Cheers Doc. The price wasn't really an issue as it was only ?£10 for a month's worth.


well check out mr la dee da howard rockefeller hughes over here


We're all absolutely loaded in Edinburgh mate! The smackheads discard their syringes onto streets paved with gold.

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Ready-2-Learn
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 56

Diddy Ryder wrote:

Hi Ready,

Hmm thanks for the input.

What would be a "normal" number of CFU? The brand boasts about the "almost 8bn CFU per day!".

FWIW, I'm just taking this as a general health supplement to see if it does any noticeable good. I don't have a specific problem I'm looking to resolve. Just being my own guinea pig :)



Yeah, this is a great question and was something I used to wonder.
With probiotics there's all this talk of millions, billions and trillions... so who know's what is good?? I mean... a billion is big right? So billion must be good... right?

Well after some research I found out the common number given to how many bugs we have in our large intestine is 100 trillion. With a 'T'!

So when comparing these products which rave about having 10-20 billion in.... what we're really looking at is a product which is a 10,000th (or 5,000th) of the number in our guts. So for 8 billion that is 12,500 times smaller than what is in the gut (correct me if my math is wrong!).
So that's like a drop in the bucket.
Anyway, all that stuff wasn't my own reasoning. It was actually how i was sold on the idea of Elixa in the first place. I'm not a big fan of product claims without any explanatory follow-on. If something can be explained and then get me to think: 'Oh yeah... that does make sense actually..' then it's definitely got my attention!

Some reasoning of my own came from finding out that 60% (dry mass) of every dump that comes out of our rear end is pure BACTERIA?!!
So if you were to somehow take a massive dump that emptied your large intestine completely, then you left it to dry out. Over half of it would be pure bacterial cells!
That gave me a sort of estimate for how much is in there.
A more scientific (and less disgusting) description is that we have about 3lbs of bacteria in our guts... That's ALOT.

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1370

Ready-2-Learn wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
... snip ...


Do i recall correctly in that you are the poster who wrote about the enema/bloating/suit/meeting episode? Wow, that was an entertaining story, bud. Really sorry to hear how bad it is for you!! It sounds like you have a totally screwed up gut.

I can associate with you because I used to have pretty bad IBS and I tried quite a few things you have (including a tonne of rifaximin, which I think screwed me over more)

'I only tolerate fast digesting carbs: enter jasmin rice and dextrose'

I was the same. When your gut is f*cked up, you gotta avoid as much FODMAPs as possible. It's just feeding the dysbiosis. If your gut is healthy, fiber is good. If it's not healthy, than fiber will likely fuel that.

I think resistant starch may NOT work so well for you. It is pretty much the perfect example of a FODMAP. But, then again, I think not all fermentable fibers act the same way. Some are worse than others and perhaps for some specific cases of gut dysbiosis, some fibers are actually beneficial...
Worth a trial, at some point.

If i were you, I would not continue the route of nuking all your gut bacteria to death and then replenishing them with good stuff. It's too risky and there is no 'full-spectrum' probiotic out there (other than a faecal microbiota transplant), so you may wipe out some unknown gut bugs that are not available in probiotics and are not easily gorwn back - which will just make your recovery harder.

My advice is to hit two birds with one stone using Elixa that you mentioned. It's the only one that gets anywhere close to the amount of CFUs I needed. (although yours sounds worse than mine was!). The bacteria in it have their own specialised methods of killing non-beneficial organisms (bacteriocins, competitive exclusion, etc) and they do NOT nuke the other beneficial bacteria (because we've all been evolving together peacefully in mutually beneficial coexistence for a million years... before antibiotics came and spoiled the party)

I would take a bunch of Elixa, stick to a low-FODMAP diet like you're doing (except reduce the veg a bit) and see how things go from there. When you want to start reintroducing fiber you should consider doing it in a scientific and controlled manner, i.e. via supplement form. So you could start with tiny amounts of inulin/psyllium/resistant starch and work up from there.

2 drastic recommendations if you are up for it:

1. Do a total water fast while taking Elixa (you might even need to double up on dosage after a few days). What I mean by water fast, is don't consume anything other than water. That way your current crop of gut bacteria will be reduced as much as possible (could even do an enema to speed up the effect of starving them). That means the probiotics in Elixa will have less of a force to go up against once they get to your L.I. You could try the fast for just a day (but maybe you should take double dose throughout that day instead of one per day) and then start eating again on the second day AFTER the next dose (or double dose of Elixa). That way you will get to take 2 doses (or 4 if you double up) on a completely empty digestive tract. I.e. the numbers in the capsules will now be higher relative to the amount waiting for them in your gut.

2. Investigate faecal transplants... I'll leave it at that ;)


Yep, that's me - good recall, pal.

@RS
I'll keep away from it for the time being.

@Elixa
Ordered it. Am really looking forward to what it can do. Will take a few days off work to be prepared for any unforeseeable consequences ;)

@Fecal Transplants
I know ;)
That's my ultimate approach should shit not work out in the end.
Already organized a 'source', as it were.

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FattyFat
Level

Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1370

_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
... snip ...



I posted an SIBO protocol that I had MAJOR success with a few pages back


Cheers, mate. If only things were that simple.

For starters:
- I can control the symptoms
- It's with repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria that I haven't had success with

Also:
- I've already tried SBO's - no luck, there
- same goes for S. Boulardii
- dito fermented stuff

To cap it off:
- NAC didn't do zilch for me
- Peppermint Oil (ent. coated, ofc) gives me GERD (but it's powerful, at least en par with oil of oregano)

There's no one size fits all solution to it.
Glad it worked out for you, though.



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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

FattyFat wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
FattyFat wrote:
... snip ...



I posted an SIBO protocol that I had MAJOR success with a few pages back


Cheers, mate. If only things were that simple.

For starters:
- I can control the symptoms
- It's with repopulating my gut with beneficial bacteria that I haven't had success with

Also:
- I've already tried SBO's - no luck, there
- same goes for S. Boulardii
- dito fermented stuff

To cap it off:
- NAC didn't do zilch for me
- Peppermint Oil (ent. coated, ofc) gives me GERD (but it's powerful, at least en par with oil of oregano)

There's no one size fits all solution to it.
Glad it worked out for you, though.





yeah man, I didn't mean to imply that it was a one size fits all. I was lucky that the protocol worked for me, but I understand it won't work for everyone.

In any case, check out this link

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspo...

and the other stuff on her website. Hopefully you'll find something there that can help

EDIT: what about resistant starch? Have you experimented with that? It should, over time, repopulate your gut and flush out all the badness

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4455

I have a colonoscopy scheduled for Friday. Just what I wanted to do on my day off, have a camera stuck up my asshole. Hopefully it will help me get some answers with my digestive issues. I actually look forward to the clean out process tomorrow.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2674

you gonna post the video?

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4455

That would be an amazing journey to witness!

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Diddy Ryder
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2010
Posts: 739

_Yogi_ wrote:
you gonna post the video?


We're still waiting on photographic evidence of these "mighty oaks" you claim to be curling out since you sorted your intestinal microbiome out.

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