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Gut Health! Sort of a Log
 

SLAINGE
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1267

_Yogi_ wrote:
StevenF wrote:
the cheaper protein powders seem to mess w/ my stomach. Isolate doesn't seem to. MAG-10 was really good just can't afford it all the time at this point.


I found out the hard way that I also react to the artificial sweeteners in cheap protein powders. Bought a massive bag of beef protein that was loaded with sweetener and the results were... messy.


This is why I only buy whey with NOTHING added, nothing. It ain't worth the alien belly and atomic shits...

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

so while it appears I can now get away with the occasional whey shake (yeah! Still not going to use them regularly though) legumes still leave me crippled with bloating.

Not such a big deal really, but my experiment with chickpeas last night made for a very uncomfortable evening.

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
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So I have now finished my SIBO protocol. It has been a MASSIVE success. Significant developments:

-seem to be able to tolerate whey again. I've drank a few ready-made protein shakes and there's been no issue. May consider trying to start my days with a whey shake.
-morning diarrhea is a thing of the past. Can't even remember the last time. Considering it was happening 2-4 times a week for the last 29 years, I consider this to be quite a development.
-"trigger" foods still cause a little discomfort, but nothing like the same scale.
-legumes are still totally off limits. At least I have an excuse not to eat my girlfriends gross chickpea thing she makes
-caffeine is back on the menu (thank god! How I've missed it)

So I've stopped taking the SIBO supps (monolaurin, berberine, peppermint oil, NAC) and as of tomorrow morning will be taking a soil-based probiotic twice daily for the next month. My resistant starch consumption is also going to go through the roof as I'm starting a bulk tomorrow too so there's going to be a lot of cooked and cooled rice being eaten out of tupperware.

I may consider buying some digestive ezymes to cope with all the extra food I'm going to be eating from now on. We shall see.

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SLAINGE
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1267

_Yogi_ wrote:
So I have now finished my SIBO protocol. It has been a MASSIVE success. Significant developments:

-seem to be able to tolerate whey again. I've drank a few ready-made protein shakes and there's been no issue. May consider trying to start my days with a whey shake.
-morning diarrhea is a thing of the past. Can't even remember the last time. Considering it was happening 2-4 times a week for the last 29 years, I consider this to be quite a development.
-"trigger" foods still cause a little discomfort, but nothing like the same scale.
-legumes are still totally off limits. At least I have an excuse not to eat my girlfriends gross chickpea thing she makes
-caffeine is back on the menu (thank god! How I've missed it)

So I've stopped taking the SIBO supps (monolaurin, berberine, peppermint oil, NAC) and as of tomorrow morning will be taking a soil-based probiotic twice daily for the next month. My resistant starch consumption is also going to go through the roof as I'm starting a bulk tomorrow too so there's going to be a lot of cooked and cooled rice being eaten out of tupperware.

I may consider buying some digestive ezymes to cope with all the extra food I'm going to be eating from now on. We shall see.


Great stuff, congrats!

What SBO probiotic are you going to take?

I ordered myself some Prescirpt Assist the other day (got a great deal) and should be here Tuesday. I have read mostly fantastic things about it. I did come across one guy John Brisson who recommends not to take that particular brand but I'll do it anyway.

Well done on seeing it through and cheers for posting the results, great info, keep us updated!

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
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Prescript Assist as well mate. Supposed to be the bee's knees.

When's yours arriving? I started mine today and will be doing 2x a day for the next month.

I'm honestly not even expecting it to do all that much seeing as how I seem pretty much cured, but I had already bought it so I figured why not?

I just checked that John Brisson's reasoninings behind not recommending it, and while he makes a good point, I've seen it recommended by so many people I rate highly (Mark Sisson, Chris Kesser, Dr GB, Richard Nikoley) that I'm confident in its efficacy.

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SLAINGE
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1267

_Yogi_ wrote:
I just checked that John Brisson's reasoninings behind not recommending it, and while he makes a good point, I've seen it recommended by so many people I rate highly (Mark Sisson, Chris Kesser, Dr GB, Richard Nikoley) that I'm confident in its efficacy.


I read around since finding J.Brisson info and got this. None of the ancestral core are in the PA probiotics however in terms of functionality, about half of our gut is Bacteroides and PA contains several strains of healthy Bacteroides. This is why it has been so effective for many with broken guts -- it literally mimics our ancestral gut. Bacteroides actually shares functionality with Clostridia as well -- so in some folks I this one probiotic PA can impact the entire gut because it is 29 strains of a collaborative community of probiotics, ones that mimic our ancestral core.



Dr BG is a wealth of info!

PA mimics natural microbes found all around us that we should get, but don't. A sort of potpourri for the immune system. The immune system WANTS to see all kinds of microbes and wants to learn from them. When it sees a real bad guy, it will be ready for it. PA isn't designed to become your new gut flora, it's designed to strengthen your immune system by showing it a microburst of natural microbes found in the soil.

Mine should be here Tuesday or Wednesday...

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

SLAINGE wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
I just checked that John Brisson's reasoninings behind not recommending it, and while he makes a good point, I've seen it recommended by so many people I rate highly (Mark Sisson, Chris Kesser, Dr GB, Richard Nikoley) that I'm confident in its efficacy.


I read around since finding J.Brisson info and got this. None of the ancestral core are in the PA probiotics however in terms of functionality, about half of our gut is Bacteroides and PA contains several strains of healthy Bacteroides. This is why it has been so effective for many with broken guts -- it literally mimics our ancestral gut. Bacteroides actually shares functionality with Clostridia as well -- so in some folks I this one probiotic PA can impact the entire gut because it is 29 strains of a collaborative community of probiotics, ones that mimic our ancestral core.



Dr BG is a wealth of info!

PA mimics natural microbes found all around us that we should get, but don't. A sort of potpourri for the immune system. The immune system WANTS to see all kinds of microbes and wants to learn from them. When it sees a real bad guy, it will be ready for it. PA isn't designed to become your new gut flora, it's designed to strengthen your immune system by showing it a microburst of natural microbes found in the soil.

Mine should be here Tuesday or Wednesday...


nice post!

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

Bumping this for some more info on Resistant Starch I found the other day.

There's 4 types of RS, but for most people's purposes the only 2 you'll come across are RS2 and RS3. If you supplement with an uncooked RS like potato starch, you're getting RS2. RS2 is great, however you need to be aware that it'll only feed the good bacteria higher up the colon, and is all used up before it reaches the end. RS3, however, is slow and steady, and makes it all the way from mouth to sphincter.

RS2 also doesn't aid in adding stool bulk, or lowering stool PH (high stool PH is an indicator of potential colon cancer), whereas RS3 does both.

So yeah. Supplement with something like potato starch, definitely, but also make sure you are getting plenty RS3 because RS2 on its own just isn't going to cut it.

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Ready-2-Learn
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 40

After posting about recent success with a probiotic on these forums ( http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...proving_my_skin ) I was referred to this thread and I've read the whole thing from start to finish.

I also saw more mention of resistant starch on these forums and it got me wondering whether the resistant starch content in this Elixa probiotic was what was giving me such dramatic results when other probiotics had done zilch.
I was 90% sure it was superior due to the 2-3 reasons stated on the website BUT I decided to do an experiment with the whole resistant starch thing in mind to see if the rice powder (which is the other ingredient in the capsule) gives atleast SOME of the benefits (such as the no-wiper dumps, lol).

The rice powder must contain a fair amount of resistant starch in (whether it was cooked or not) as the capsule is consumed cold AND the rice powder is inside a capsule which will impede it being digested higher up in the digestive tract anyway. Cold rice powder in a capsule sounds like a good delivery mechanism for resistant starch, so I wasn't basing my theory on nothing.

My experiment consisted of drinking rice flour mixed with water. I gradually increased it over the course of a week.
My bathroom frequency slightly increase in the very first few days but within a week it was back to normal. As was the quality of the bowel movements. But normal for me now is VERY good. So it's not like I'm testing this while having bad bowel problems.
Having said that, it did not produce the improvements to skin and everything else that Elixa did. So I'm fairly sure it is NOT the rice powder doing the trick. But it was worth an experiment to check and I thought i'd let people know.

Maybe the rice powder does help or maybe it is simply 'inert'. In any case, I've not seen a probiotic with resistant starch in until this one, so another plus in my book.

On another note: No heartburn/GERD since starting the probiotic (and i've not taken it for a while, so it seems that's gone for good)

Still... on paper I think rice flour would be a good source of resistant starch. I can't speak for the benefits of RS though. Not run any experiements with potato starch.

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_Yogi_
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I love it when someone bumps this thread! It's my pride and joy.

Is the Elixa probiotic soil-based? I've been using prescript assist for a while now and my gut seems to be pretty much bulletproof now.

You've maybe not been using enough RS for long enough to see benefits yet. The studies mostly show the benefits after you've been using 30g or so for about a month

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4393

My gut health and digestion is absolute shit. It has been for years. I am at my wits end trying to figure out how to remedy this. The gas I'm having these last two days is absolutely horrid smelling.

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
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StevenF wrote:
My gut health and digestion is absolute shit. It has been for years. I am at my wits end trying to figure out how to remedy this. The gas I'm having these last two days is absolutely horrid smelling.


Mate, I was the exact same.

You might have what I had: Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth.

I had that shit for fucking YEARS and it was a nightmare. It was getting so bad I was worried I had Crohn's disease.

Turned out that 6 weeks of supplementing with a few things was enough to totally fix it. My gut is strong like bull now. Probably the best thing I ever did.

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Ready-2-Learn
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 40

_Yogi_ wrote:
I love it when someone bumps this thread! It's my pride and joy.

Is the Elixa probiotic soil-based? I've been using prescript assist for a while now and my gut seems to be pretty much bulletproof now.

You've maybe not been using enough RS for long enough to see benefits yet. The studies mostly show the benefits after you've been using 30g or so for about a month


Yes! Infact it was you who pointed me in the direction of this thread. Thanks!

Yeah that's as i thought (about the RS). Since this probiotic is done in short blasts, I thought it unlikely that it was the resistant starch effect...

I can't remember where it says on the website, but it said that is was human-strains. I've got a box here and it says 9 strains of lactobacillus and bifidobacterium.
I've tried soil-based in the past (saccharomyces boulardii among others) and i've never gotten anything out of them (despite testing at high dosages for sustained periods of time).

Anything that doesn't focus on strains that are found naturally in the human gut, have done nothing for me (e.g. a powder satchet one which contained strep thermophilus and l. bulgaricus).

I've seen the exact strain list of what is in Elixa somewhereee.... maybe on amazon or ebay. But, anyway, it's just 9 strains from those 2 groups (lactobacillus and bifidobacterium).

Unlike with fiber, I've found that the benefits have remained long after finishing the last course I did. Everything feels pretty 'permanent' right now. No fluctuations and 'off days'. I think perhaps a big binge, of some really crappy food and alcohol, might reverse a bit of the progress. But then i'd just do another blast of these probiotics.

I'm going to experiment with RS now that i've witnessed what a huge difference in my health has been made by using probiotics. I can't believe I used to think it was bunkum/pseudo-medicine a few years back!!!

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Ready-2-Learn
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 40

StevenF wrote:
My gut health and digestion is absolute shit. It has been for years. I am at my wits end trying to figure out how to remedy this. The gas I'm having these last two days is absolutely horrid smelling.


Try a zero-fodmap diet plus probiotics. The gas is from fermentation of FODMAPs. Just cut them out for a quick fix and then use probiotics to start correcting the actual problem (i.e. the wrong type of bacteria in your gut).

I had to go practically zero carb (except plain white rice which has very little fiber in) for YEARS, just to avoid having IBS. But the permanent fix is not to avoid feeding your large intestine at all - it's to make sure the right bacteria are in there.
Good luck dude.

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

Ready-2-Learn wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
I love it when someone bumps this thread! It's my pride and joy.

Is the Elixa probiotic soil-based? I've been using prescript assist for a while now and my gut seems to be pretty much bulletproof now.

You've maybe not been using enough RS for long enough to see benefits yet. The studies mostly show the benefits after you've been using 30g or so for about a month


Yes! Infact it was you who pointed me in the direction of this thread. Thanks!

Yeah that's as i thought (about the RS). Since this probiotic is done in short blasts, I thought it unlikely that it was the resistant starch effect...

I can't remember where it says on the website, but it said that is was human-strains. I've got a box here and it says 9 strains of lactobacillus and bifidobacterium.
I've tried soil-based in the past (saccharomyces boulardii among others) and i've never gotten anything out of them (despite testing at high dosages for sustained periods of time).

Anything that doesn't focus on strains that are found naturally in the human gut, have done nothing for me (e.g. a powder satchet one which contained strep thermophilus and l. bulgaricus).

I've seen the exact strain list of what is in Elixa somewhereee.... maybe on amazon or ebay. But, anyway, it's just 9 strains from those 2 groups (lactobacillus and bifidobacterium).

Unlike with fiber, I've found that the benefits have remained long after finishing the last course I did. Everything feels pretty 'permanent' right now. No fluctuations and 'off days'. I think perhaps a big binge, of some really crappy food and alcohol, might reverse a bit of the progress. But then i'd just do another blast of these probiotics.

I'm going to experiment with RS now that i've witnessed what a huge difference in my health has been made by using probiotics. I can't believe I used to think it was bunkum/pseudo-medicine a few years back!!!


interestingly, lactobacillus is actually contraindicated for a lot of gut problems. It didn't really do much for me one way or the other, but it can make certain conditions worse.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take it, as it's obviously working for you. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4393

YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

StevenF wrote:
YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?


-0.2ml enteric coated peppermint oil
-1200mg monolaurin
-400mg berberine
-1200mg N Acetyl Cysteine

taken twice a day on an empty stomach. Also used (and still do) a mix of psyllium husk fibre and potato starch (1 tbsp each) once or twice a day. I ate really low carb when I was doing it (apparently that helps).

Protocol lasted about a month. After I was done with that I added some SBO probiotics.

I just bought the supps off amazon for the most part. It wasn't cheap, but it was genuinely one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm a different person now.

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Ready-2-Learn
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Join date: Apr 2008
Posts: 40

_Yogi_ wrote:
StevenF wrote:
YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?


-0.2ml enteric coated peppermint oil
-1200mg monolaurin
-400mg berberine
-1200mg N Acetyl Cysteine

taken twice a day on an empty stomach. Also used (and still do) a mix of psyllium husk fibre and potato starch (1 tbsp each) once or twice a day. I ate really low carb when I was doing it (apparently that helps).

Protocol lasted about a month. After I was done with that I added some SBO probiotics.

I just bought the supps off amazon for the most part. It wasn't cheap, but it was genuinely one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm a different person now.


Other than strictly GI issues, have you noticed anything else improving?

I mean, DEFINITELY improving. Such as skin, mental state, allergies, etc.?

Would you say the results came due to the psyllium + RS mostly, or do you think the SBOs were an essential part of the protocol?

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

Ready-2-Learn wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
StevenF wrote:
YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?


-0.2ml enteric coated peppermint oil
-1200mg monolaurin
-400mg berberine
-1200mg N Acetyl Cysteine

taken twice a day on an empty stomach. Also used (and still do) a mix of psyllium husk fibre and potato starch (1 tbsp each) once or twice a day. I ate really low carb when I was doing it (apparently that helps).

Protocol lasted about a month. After I was done with that I added some SBO probiotics.

I just bought the supps off amazon for the most part. It wasn't cheap, but it was genuinely one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm a different person now.


Other than strictly GI issues, have you noticed anything else improving?

I mean, DEFINITELY improving. Such as skin, mental state, allergies, etc.?

Would you say the results came due to the psyllium + RS mostly, or do you think the SBOs were an essential part of the protocol?


Just GI issues, but they were so bad that that's plenty as far as I'm concerned.

I would say the results mostly came from the supplements I was taking for the SIBO. The fibre helped, I'm sure, but without the SIBO supps it wouldn't have fixed anything.

By the time I started on the SBOs I was already pretty much fixed, so I can't say for sure that they've even been necessary but I'd already bought them and I trust the science so I figured I might as well take them anyway

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4393

_Yogi_ wrote:
StevenF wrote:
YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?


-0.2ml enteric coated peppermint oil
-1200mg monolaurin
-400mg berberine
-1200mg N Acetyl Cysteine

taken twice a day on an empty stomach. Also used (and still do) a mix of psyllium husk fibre and potato starch (1 tbsp each) once or twice a day. I ate really low carb when I was doing it (apparently that helps).

Protocol lasted about a month. After I was done with that I added some SBO probiotics.

I just bought the supps off amazon for the most part. It wasn't cheap, but it was genuinely one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm a different person now.


Just bought them and will be starting it when i have everything. I didn't even take a #2 today and that happens often only going every other day. This needs to be solved now.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

StevenF wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
StevenF wrote:
YOGI, what was your exact protocol for SIBO? Also, where did you purchase your supplements for it?


-0.2ml enteric coated peppermint oil
-1200mg monolaurin
-400mg berberine
-1200mg N Acetyl Cysteine

taken twice a day on an empty stomach. Also used (and still do) a mix of psyllium husk fibre and potato starch (1 tbsp each) once or twice a day. I ate really low carb when I was doing it (apparently that helps).

Protocol lasted about a month. After I was done with that I added some SBO probiotics.

I just bought the supps off amazon for the most part. It wasn't cheap, but it was genuinely one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm a different person now.


Just bought them and will be starting it when i have everything. I didn't even take a #2 today and that happens often only going every other day. This needs to be solved now.


good luck, mate. Report back as to how it goes. I noticed a benefit within the first couple of weeks

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4393

Took my first dose tonight. Hope this helps! Been a long time dealing with these problems.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 2059

you doing the same protocol I did?

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StevenF
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4393

_Yogi_ wrote:
you doing the same protocol I did?


Yes or as close as I can get with the dosages of my supplements. Trying to cut out the caffeine kind of touch just worked 20 hours of OT in the past two days.

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