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Brain Function Boosters 3.0
 

tornpie
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 2

This is a cool thread. A lot of good information and experience here, particularly from BBB.

Here's a list of my favorite nootropics:

Piracetam, aniracetam, centrophenoxine, huperzine A(no sides for me and subtle gains), ALCAR, modafinil, DMAE, rhodiola, eleuthro, bacopa, ashwagandha, NaRALA, selegiline, theanine, inositol, kava, ginseng, ginkgo, lion's mane, DLPA, l-tyrosine, and sulbutiamine(even though this might be a bad one).

Here's some things I suspect were good cognitive wise:

Gotu Kola, DHEA, forskolin, cordyceps, yohimbe, carnosine, glycine, glutamine, TMG, and taurine.

Stuff I've tried but need to play with more to find right dosage due to price:

Phenylpiracetam and Alpha-GPC.

Stuff I felt nothing from:

Pramiracetam.

Stuff I plan on trying in the future:

Oxiracetam, acetyl l-carnitine arginate, CDP-choline, hydergine, desmopressin, oxytocin, cerebrolysin, idebenone, tianeptine, pregnenolone, mexidol, semax, noopept, strychnine, picamilon, passion flower, lemon balm, rosemary, phosphatidylserine, vinpocetine, PQQ, and galantamine.

I've found that when playing the nootropic game, it's essential to stack right. This includes not only the combinations of nootropics, but also the dosages, timing, vitamins, minerals, proteins, and essential fatty acids. Particularly in the case of something like modafinil. Modafinil has become very anxiogenic for me at times, particularly 400mg stacked with 9mg Emsam(transdermal selegiline equivalent to 30mg oral) and 75mg ED tren ace. I've found that I can tolerate it better when I am also taking adaptogenic herbs with it. Ashwagandha, bacopa, gotu kola, ginseng, eleuthro, kava, and rhodiola are great for modulating the stress of an anxiety inducing nootropic. Theanine, GABA, inositol, and aniracetam are outstanding as well. I've recently read about a guy going to low doses of modafinil (25mg couple times a day) and getting a better cognitive effect. Nitric oxide is also something that needs to be modulated. It's not just for the pumps anymore! In the brain it can lead to excitotoxicity.

That said, I must say that I am consistently amazed at how the basic vitamins and minerals are in making or breaking any stack (gear or nootropics). I'm currently playing around with 8 grams of pantothenic acid and 2 grams of full-flush niacin. They seem to have a significant effect particularly in the case of niacin. Regular niacin seems to be doing things that niacinamide and inositol hexanicotinate aren't doing as well. I think niacin may be converting to NADH more efficiently and in greater quantities. Magnesium, zinc, B6, B12, folic acid, vitamin D, and even lowly vitamin C are also needed in the right dosages and decently bioavailable forms. I think many, me included, get in the habit of wanting to be fancy while ignoring the basics.

And remember: fish oil, fish oil, always fish oil!

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kakno
Level

Join date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2764

MattyG35 wrote:
Ghost22 wrote:
MattyG35 wrote:
Just typed 'intelligence in a pill' in google and came across this about glutamic acid. I see that it's done on mentally deficient people but still pretty interesting, and it's also from 1948!
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/...amp;Qis=XL#qdig


Glutamate is an important neurotransmitter.

There are N-Methyl-D-Aspartate (NMDA) receptors that Glutamate binds to, however, excessive glutamate stimulation has been shown to produce neuronal toxicity (hence one of the problems with Monosodium glutamate (MSG)). So direct supplementation is not advisable. I don't know that supplementation would be that useful to begin with, though, especially for those of us that lift as I'm sure we consume enough protein.

FYI Ani modulates AMPA receptors (among it's other suspected actions[others being D receptors, nACh and 5HT, I believe]), which are non-NDMA glutamate receptors.

Another fun little FYI: a fairly successful Alzheimer's drug Memantine is a non-competitive NDMA antagonist (it blocks the activity of the NDMA, the idea being to slow down cell death resulting from the binding of excess glutamate, which gets worse and worse as there are fewer and fewer living cells).


That's alot of info for me to assimilate.
I'm interested in further reading on these mechanisms that you mention, where are some good places to start? ie website, books, other media. thx in advance.

Here, it's pretty much the way we try to explain memory on the cell level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...rm_potentiation

or if you really wan't to learn more:
http://www.sinauer.com/...neuroscience4e/
There's a chapter or two on plasticity I think.

Was there some evidence that vinpo inhibited AMPA and NMDA receptors?

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MattyG35
Level

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3395

thanks for the links kakno

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Ghost22
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4231

kakno wrote:
Was there some evidence that vinpo inhibited AMPA and NMDA receptors?


Not that I'm aware of.

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middleageguy
Level

Join date: Aug 2004
Posts: 189

[quote]tornpie wrote:
This is a cool thread. A lot of good information and experience here, particularly from BBB.

Here's a list of my favorite nootropics:

Piracetam, aniracetam, centrophenoxine, huperzine A(no sides for me and subtle gains), ALCAR, modafinil, DMAE, rhodiola, eleuthro, bacopa, ashwagandha, NaRALA, selegiline, theanine, inositol, kava, ginseng, ginkgo, lion's mane, DLPA, l-tyrosine, and sulbutiamine(even though this might be a bad one).

Here's some things I suspect were good cognitive wise:

Gotu Kola, DHEA, forskolin, cordyceps, yohimbe, carnosine, glycine, glutamine, TMG, and taurine.

Stuff I've tried but need to play with more to find right dosage due to price:

Phenylpiracetam and Alpha-GPC.

Stuff I felt nothing from:

Pramiracetam.

Stuff I plan on trying in the future:

Oxiracetam, acetyl l-carnitine arginate, CDP-choline, hydergine, desmopressin, oxytocin, cerebrolysin, idebenone, tianeptine, pregnenolone, mexidol, semax, noopept, strychnine, picamilon, passion flower, lemon balm, rosemary, phosphatidylserine, vinpocetine, PQQ, and galantamine.

I've found that when playing the nootropic game, it's essential to stack right. This includes not only the combinations of nootropics, but also the dosages, timing, vitamins, minerals, proteins, and essential fatty acids. Particularly in the case of something like modafinil. Modafinil has become very anxiogenic for me at times, particularly 400mg stacked with 9mg Emsam(transdermal selegiline equivalent to 30mg oral) and 75mg ED tren ace. I've found that I can tolerate it better when I am also taking adaptogenic herbs with it. Ashwagandha, bacopa, gotu kola, ginseng, eleuthro, kava, and rhodiola are great for modulating the stress of an anxiety inducing nootropic. Theanine, GABA, inositol, and aniracetam are outstanding as well. I've recently read about a guy going to low doses of modafinil (25mg couple times a day) and getting a better cognitive effect. Nitric oxide is also something that needs to be modulated. It's not just for the pumps anymore! In the brain it can lead to excitotoxicity.

I too have been experimenting with some new stuff: whole turmeric root powder, lemon balm (which I have written about before), and galantamine.
Galantamine works really well with oxi or ani.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

tornpie wrote:
This is a cool thread. A lot of good information and experience here, particularly from BBB.

Here's a list of my favorite nootropics:

Piracetam, aniracetam, centrophenoxine, huperzine A(no sides for me and subtle gains), ALCAR, modafinil, DMAE, rhodiola, eleuthro, bacopa, ashwagandha, NaRALA, selegiline, theanine, inositol, kava, ginseng, ginkgo, lion's mane, DLPA, l-tyrosine, and sulbutiamine(even though this might be a bad one).

Here's some things I suspect were good cognitive wise:

Gotu Kola, DHEA, forskolin, cordyceps, yohimbe, carnosine, glycine, glutamine, TMG, and taurine.

Stuff I've tried but need to play with more to find right dosage due to price:

Phenylpiracetam and Alpha-GPC.

Stuff I felt nothing from:

Pramiracetam.

Stuff I plan on trying in the future:

Oxiracetam, acetyl l-carnitine arginate, CDP-choline, hydergine, desmopressin, oxytocin, cerebrolysin, idebenone, tianeptine, pregnenolone, mexidol, semax, noopept, strychnine, picamilon, passion flower, lemon balm, rosemary, phosphatidylserine, vinpocetine, PQQ, and galantamine.

I've found that when playing the nootropic game, it's essential to stack right. This includes not only the combinations of nootropics, but also the dosages, timing, vitamins, minerals, proteins, and essential fatty acids. Particularly in the case of something like modafinil. Modafinil has become very anxiogenic for me at times, particularly 400mg stacked with 9mg Emsam(transdermal selegiline equivalent to 30mg oral) and 75mg ED tren ace. I've found that I can tolerate it better when I am also taking adaptogenic herbs with it. Ashwagandha, bacopa, gotu kola, ginseng, eleuthro, kava, and rhodiola are great for modulating the stress of an anxiety inducing nootropic. Theanine, GABA, inositol, and aniracetam are outstanding as well. I've recently read about a guy going to low doses of modafinil (25mg couple times a day) and getting a better cognitive effect. Nitric oxide is also something that needs to be modulated. It's not just for the pumps anymore! In the brain it can lead to excitotoxicity.

That said, I must say that I am consistently amazed at how the basic vitamins and minerals are in making or breaking any stack (gear or nootropics). I'm currently playing around with 8 grams of pantothenic acid and 2 grams of full-flush niacin. They seem to have a significant effect particularly in the case of niacin. Regular niacin seems to be doing things that niacinamide and inositol hexanicotinate aren't doing as well. I think niacin may be converting to NADH more efficiently and in greater quantities. Magnesium, zinc, B6, B12, folic acid, vitamin D, and even lowly vitamin C are also needed in the right dosages and decently bioavailable forms. I think many, me included, get in the habit of wanting to be fancy while ignoring the basics.

And remember: fish oil, fish oil, always fish oil!


Even if you hadn't flattered me at the start of your post I would still have written:

Excellent post, thanks for contributing!

BBB

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tornpie
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 2

middleageguy wrote:
I too have been experimenting with some new stuff: whole turmeric root powder, lemon balm (which I have written about before), and galantamine.
Galantamine works really well with oxi or ani.


How does galantamine compare to huperzine? Have you tried both? They both act in a similar manner from what I've read.

I just got oxi and cdp-choline. I'm liking them a lot.

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jasmincar
Level 3

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3044

Anyone ever tried to take this all at the same time? Well I did and I scored 5% more than my average on my last trigonometry test

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middleageguy
Level

Join date: Aug 2004
Posts: 189

tornpie wrote:
middleageguy wrote:
I too have been experimenting with some new stuff: whole turmeric root powder, lemon balm (which I have written about before), and galantamine.
Galantamine works really well with oxi or ani.


How does galantamine compare to huperzine? Have you tried both? They both act in a similar manner from what I've read.

I just got oxi and cdp-choline. I'm liking them a lot.


Tried Huperzine couple of years ago did nothing for me. Might not feel anything from galantamine until you take it a few days in a row....then stack it with oxi or ani plus vinpo for study sessions....it's the best.

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drainbamaged
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 7

Hi guys, I have been reading this thread and a lot of other noop threads in this forum and I love the input and the amount of info you guys have posted, especially the "regular" posters like bushido and others.

What I am looking for:

- My main goal is improving focus and short term memory, I get distraced easily and often am unmotivated at work and at home. I have a difficulty recalling stuff like names, dates etc.
Not sure how this comes, Im 33 and for some reason my short t memory is really bad, it has never been good but now its terrible.
I am proces technician and currently in the startup of a new plant, therefore I need to remember a ton of stuff and need to learn a lot of new things. I come up short compared to my collegues lol. I work in shifts and often have a lack of sleep, and Im sure this isnt a good thing for my memory lol.

I smoke cigarettes, is it possible this is affecting my short t memory?

This is what I have bought:

- choline and inositol combined taps
- aniracetam bulk powder
- dmae 500 mg caps

other supplements I am using: creatine / fishoil


Im currently still experimenting with dosages. Should I get vinpo and add it to my stack? Which would be the best to improve my memory.

I take dmae together with ani in the morning together with fishoil and some food but have taken the ani together with the choline/inositol also. Not sure what the best combination would be? Whould it be usefull to take all 3 in the morning?

I've read that ani should be taken with fat food? And dmae can be taken on a empty stomach?

So maybe it isnt wise to take them together with food? Should I take dmae first thing in the morning and add ani choline an hour later with food? I will take ani dmae 2 times a day or maybe after a few weeks 3 times.

I have been taking the dmae/choline for about 6 days and the ani for 4 days. I see some small improvements in memory but nothing spectacular (yet). Overall mood and concentration levels have gone up, this is a big difference already.

Main questions:

Add vinpo?

Best product to improve short term memory?

A lot of question but any responce is appreciated. Thx.

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drainbamaged
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 7

What are your thoughts on NAC's as a general anti-oxidant? It seems it might do the job, would it be possible this also removes brain plaque?

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middleageguy
Level

Join date: Aug 2004
Posts: 189

drainbamaged wrote:
Hi guys, I have been reading this thread and a lot of other noop threads in this forum and I love the input and the amount of info you guys have posted, especially the "regular" posters like bushido and others.

What I am looking for:

- My main goal is improving focus and short term memory, I get distraced easily and often am unmotivated at work and at home. I have a difficulty recalling stuff like names, dates etc.
Not sure how this comes, Im 33 and for some reason my short t memory is really bad, it has never been good but now its terrible.
I am proces technician and currently in the startup of a new plant, therefore I need to remember a ton of stuff and need to learn a lot of new things. I come up short compared to my collegues lol. I work in shifts and often have a lack of sleep, and Im sure this isnt a good thing for my memory lol.

I smoke cigarettes, is it possible this is affecting my short t memory?

This is what I have bought:

- choline and inositol combined taps
- aniracetam bulk powder
- dmae 500 mg caps

other supplements I am using: creatine / fishoil


Im currently still experimenting with dosages. Should I get vinpo and add it to my stack? Which would be the best to improve my memory.

I take dmae together with ani in the morning together with fishoil and some food but have taken the ani together with the choline/inositol also. Not sure what the best combination would be? Whould it be usefull to take all 3 in the morning?

I've read that ani should be taken with fat food? And dmae can be taken on a empty stomach?

So maybe it isnt wise to take them together with food? Should I take dmae first thing in the morning and add ani choline an hour later with food? I will take ani dmae 2 times a day or maybe after a few weeks 3 times.

I have been taking the dmae/choline for about 6 days and the ani for 4 days. I see some small improvements in memory but nothing spectacular (yet). Overall mood and concentration levels have gone up, this is a big difference already.

Main questions:

Add vinpo?

Best product to improve short term memory?

A lot of question but any responce is appreciated. Thx.

My first advice to you is to please stop smoking! If you are creating a pro-oxidant environment in your brain, DMAE may do more harm than good. I read somewhere that DMAE can accelerate free radical reactions in a pro-oxidant environment.

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Jeffrey of Troy
Level 2

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 458

Just wanted to thank ToneBone for starting the original thread way back when; also BBB, rowesk, and many others for their contributions. And Biotest for keeping these threads available all this time.

I never heard of a "nootropic" until I stumbled across the first thread last fall; started my first stack - piracetam (luvvit), vinpo (eh), and centro (hmmmm, centro) - in Jan. Finished off centro first, then vinpo, now almost done with pira. Happy with results, wanna take a break to evaluate and see if any lasting effects..

Tried hup A, gave me a headache.

Would like to try deprenyl and hydergine (I just turned 40), but can only find one website that carries them (seems a bit grey market), and they only take visa (my cc is master); so that's on the back burner.

Noop Group FTW!

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Jeffrey of Troy
Level 2

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 458

tornpie wrote:

...

Stuff I plan on trying in the future:

strychnine

...

That said, I must say that I am consistently amazed at how the basic vitamins and minerals are in making or breaking any stack (gear or nootropics). I'm currently playing around with 8 grams of pantothenic acid and 2 grams of full-flush niacin. They seem to have a significant effect particularly in the case of niacin. Regular niacin seems to be doing things that niacinamide and inositol hexanicotinate aren't doing as well. I think niacin may be converting to NADH more efficiently and in greater quantities. Magnesium, zinc, B6, B12, folic acid, vitamin D, and even lowly vitamin C are also needed in the right dosages and decently bioavailable forms. I think many, me included, get in the habit of wanting to be fancy while ignoring the basics.

And remember: fish oil, fish oil, always fish oil!



Dude, strychnine is poison.

As far as vits; 8 grams is a crazy amount of panto. Amounts of any substance - even a vitamin - that you could never get from food can cause deficiencies of other stuff, even if you're getting "enough" of the other stuff. Have you tried consistently getting enough sleep?

Niacin: I found even 100mg per day made a huge difference for me. Started taking it because of a book called The Brain Chemistry Diet, by Michael Lesser. He was one of the founders of orthomolecular psychiatry; the book is like a cross between Jungian archetypes and nutrional medicine.

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drainbamaged
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 7

middleageguy wrote:

My first advice to you is to please stop smoking! If you are creating a pro-oxidant environment in your brain, DMAE may do more harm than good. I read somewhere that DMAE can accelerate free radical reactions in a pro-oxidant environment.



I know I need to quit smoking, but it aint easy lol, Im really trying but its hard. Would chewing nicotine tablets reduce the free radicals compared to smoking untill I become nicotine free?

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MattyG35
Level

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3395

I got my brother to quit smoking. All it took was a $500 bet. Except he doesn't get $500 for quitting, he can only lose it. :)

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middleageguy
Level

Join date: Aug 2004
Posts: 189

drainbamaged wrote:
middleageguy wrote:

My first advice to you is to please stop smoking! If you are creating a pro-oxidant environment in your brain, DMAE may do more harm than good. I read somewhere that DMAE can accelerate free radical reactions in a pro-oxidant environment.



I know I need to quit smoking, but it aint easy lol, Im really trying but its hard. Would chewing nicotine tablets reduce the free radicals compared to smoking untill I become nicotine free?

I would say yes to that....it would be the lesser of two evils....cigarette smoke contains a thousand chemicals, none of which are good for you.

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threewhitelights
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1597

So I'm only 28 pages into the first thread, so this might've been covered already, but fuck it, I'm asking anyways.

I'm attending a ridiculously fast paced electrical and nuclear engineering program, and I need help staying on top. Basically, I'm cramming a shit-ton of electrical and nuclear related material every day, and it's getting tough to memorize all the material we receive every day.

Right now, I'm taking:
Aniracetam 750mg 2x a day on class days
Oxiracetam 750mg during intense study sessions
Choline citrate 2-3g/day
Creatine 5g/day

On the way, I have vinpocetine and huperzine. I've already got piracetam in hand. I'm wondering what order I should add these in to get a good feel for each of them? I'm not sure when the vinpo and huper will get here, they were out of stock when I ordered.

Also, oddly, the oxiracetam doesn't make me sleepy. I also don't get the same ridiculous retention rates some of you are reporting, but I'm pretty sure it's a legit company (SP) so I'm wondering if there are just people that don't respond. I take it with the ani in a drink, the way it's recommended in the first thread.

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MattyG35
Level

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3395

Things should start working better when you take the vinpocetine with the racetams. Sort of like turning a 2 lane highway into a 4 lane(ie more traffic, which burns more gas(ACh)).

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stefanogym
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 430

I like Brain from Dr Schulze's

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catalyst
Level 10

Join date: Apr 2006
Posts: 326

stefanogym wrote:
I like Brain from Dr Schulze's


HERBAL INGREDIENTS: Ginkgo Biloba Leaf, Rosemary Leaf & Flower, Kola Nut, Habanero Pepper

Doesn't seem to uh...be awesome.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

catalyst wrote:
stefanogym wrote:
I like Brain from Dr Schulze's


HERBAL INGREDIENTS: Ginkgo Biloba Leaf, Rosemary Leaf & Flower, Kola Nut, Habanero Pepper

Doesn't seem to uh...be awesome.


LOL, my thoughts exactly.

BBB

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drainbamaged
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 7

Small update

I've been taking the ani for a few weeks now, mostly 2 times a day 1/3 teaspoon but now I also received some capsules which are easier to take with me, although I regret not ordering oxi or prami instead.

I take the ani with choline or DMAE, and fishoil (I take this 3x day) I think its 1 capsule of 750 mg every dosage.

First impressions: my vision seems to have improved, I wear contacts and often they are a biatch, but I can see better now. My eyes seem less tired.

My mood seems to have improved and focus is a lot better still.

Only thing I havent really noticed is a huge improvement in memory.

Ive added vinpo (2x 10 mg) to the stack and have been taking it for over a week. Doesnt seem to do much, my memory is only slightly improved since started taking the racetams.

Brainfog is cleared up a little though and focus has improved for sure.

I still dont sleep enough and still smoke lol. Have to quit damnit.

OVerall I would rate these improvements a 7/10.

Anything I could add for short term memory/memorization?

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kakno
Level

Join date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2764

Last exam today. Noops fucking rock.

If anyone cares: My peaking protocol before exams is 2x2 neurostims* the day before the exam and 2 with breakfast the next day. And 2 at lunch if it's a bigass exam.

*1 pill is 15mg vinpo, 300mg DMAE and 420 mg aniracetam.

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Ghost22
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4231

threewhitelights wrote:
So I'm only 28 pages into the first thread, so this might've been covered already, but fuck it, I'm asking anyways.

I'm attending a ridiculously fast paced electrical and nuclear engineering program, and I need help staying on top. Basically, I'm cramming a shit-ton of electrical and nuclear related material every day, and it's getting tough to memorize all the material we receive every day.

Right now, I'm taking:
Aniracetam 750mg 2x a day on class days
Oxiracetam 750mg during intense study sessions
Choline citrate 2-3g/day
Creatine 5g/day

On the way, I have vinpocetine and huperzine. I've already got piracetam in hand. I'm wondering what order I should add these in to get a good feel for each of them? I'm not sure when the vinpo and huper will get here, they were out of stock when I ordered.

Also, oddly, the oxiracetam doesn't make me sleepy. I also don't get the same ridiculous retention rates some of you are reporting, but I'm pretty sure it's a legit company (SP) so I'm wondering if there are just people that don't respond. I take it with the ani in a drink, the way it's recommended in the first thread.


Add Vinpo first, it should become a staple of your stack. I only take Hup A with Oxi. The Oxi doesn't make me sleepy, either (I get it from the same place you do). I still get the effect, I mean, it's not like it learns the material FOR you, but recall does seem easier with it.

That said, nothing will ever replace time with nose in book and busting your ass to learn the material, noops just add an edge, and enough of one that I would never tell my classmates about them.

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