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V-Diet Vet Tries Carb Cycling
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hankinstien
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66

See original post here: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...max_and_hot_rox

Basically, I'm a FFB (or, former Obese boy) who successfully lost 130 pounds in a little over a year, with 2 V-Diets in there. I'd pretty much adopted a great low calorie, low-to-no-carb lifestyle with regular lifting and other recreational fitness things (I love me some bike riding).

But, reaching about 200 lbs at about 15-18% bodyfat, I had totally stopped progressing, for months (I want to be 10-12% at like 185ish). Even when continuing to drop the calories, down to like 1600 a day, even when raising the amount of activity, I still wasn't losing any weight anymore. So in the thread above, Chris suggested I try Carb Cycling. Corstijeir also asked to be kept up on how it went, so I figured I'd make a little log to keep me on track, and get some feedback/accountability from the crew here.

Consider it an experiment in carbs, coming from someone who was utterly terrified of carbs, and terrified of ever going above 2000 calories.

So I found CT's Carb Cycling Codex and did the calculations for myself, finding to my shock that my "low" days called for more calories than my current daily calories--and by quite a bit. Also, the high carb days? It's absurd. Absolutely absurd how many carbs I was supposed to take in.

So, having only done 2 high carb days so far, let me report: On both days of high carbing it, I immediately set PRs in the weightroom. In EVERY SINGLE LIFT. That's right, on Day 1 of this program I was immediately, squatting and benching more than I had before, and the second high carb day had me out-deadlifting myself, doing more pullups than ever, and begging for more while I was doing it. These are the best workouts I've ever had.

But the post workout meals are almost too much to handle. In addition to a full serving of Surge Recovery, I needed 25g of additional protein, and 90g of additional carbs--right after lifting. CT says to get that from rice. Do you know how much rice that is? Let me tell you. You do not own a bowl that can contain that much rice. It's an entire pot of rice. An entire pot! With a can of chicken or tuna thrown in. Thats right after lifting, right after chugging down 2 scoops of surge. Even my fat-prone, chronically over-eating self could barely get it down. It takes me like 30-45 minutes to eat all that, and I almost feel sick having crammed that much food down so fast.

Then, I'm supposed to have another meal 60 minutes post workout. Thats not long after I finish the rice-a-palooza. This also a heavy carb meal--to the tune of more than double what a usual meal is for me. So, I down the surge, chew through all that rice, then not long after that, down 50g more protein and 2 sweet potatoes and some blueberries.

Don't get me wrong, this is kindof awesome, and I love eating. I'm not complaining. I just have trouble thinking I can lose weight like this. It's against everything I've come to believe.

Of course, there's also the no-carb days, which was yesterday, but even those are more food than I'm used to getting, so it's not like I'm struggling there either.

We'll see what happens. I'm only really tracking scale weight (at the start, it was 207) and looking at the mirror, and I think it'll take atleast 2-3 weeks before I start reaching some equilibrium and seeing any measurable progress, so, I guess, tune in to see what happens.

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corstijeir
Level 100

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3422

Hey man good to see the lifts improved!

white long grain rice - 165g = 44g carb
rice flour - 158g = 127g carb
As for the carbs-- what about rice flour? You know, ground up rice. Mix that in with a scoop of MD ? Just a thought, no idea how that will respond.

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hankinstien
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66

I haven't tried rice flour, mybe I'll check it out -- although I did just go back and realized that I did the math wrong originally for the rice and I was eating WAY too much. No wonder I felt bloated and sick afterwards... I was eating like double or more of what I actually needed.

I got it fixed now, so it should be more manageable.

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corstijeir
Level 100

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3422

hankinstien wrote:
I haven't tried rice flour, mybe I'll check it out -- although I did just go back and realized that I did the math wrong originally for the rice and I was eating WAY too much. No wonder I felt bloated and sick afterwards... I was eating like double or more of what I actually needed.

I got it fixed now, so it should be more manageable.


That'll do it every time. Keep us updated!

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nateschmidt24
Level 10

Join date: Nov 2009
Posts: 611

Very cool,
I'm actually trying some carb-cycling myself right now after months of low-carbing it. My plan's a bit different, based off a Cheat Your Way Thin Diet I picked up. Basically the low medium and high days are all the same, it's more the type of carb (either low or high glycemic index/load)

So my days are looking like this:
M: Weight Training - Medium. 3 meals with protein and low GI/GL carbs, (mostly beans/lentils and a sweet potato post-training) and 2 snacks of protein and fruit

T: Sprinting - Low. 3 meals and 2 snacks with no carbs but veggies

W: Off from training - Pulse fast day

T: Weight Training - Hight. 3 meals with protein and starchy carbs like oats, sweet potato and quinoa, as well as Surge Workout Fuel before training. 2 snacks of protein and fruit

F: Off from training - Low

S: Sprinting - Low, but may have a some fruit

S: Off from training - Low.

I kinda frankensteined this plan between the Cheat diet (I'm not having an actual cheat day) and Chad Waterbury's diet from Body of Fire which is my training plan. Basically the BOF plan is a moderately low carb plan with all days the same macro and calorie breakdown, so I used those amounts just re-arranged when I'm eating it. So far I'm losing anywhere from 2-4 lbs a week since I started about 4 weeks ago. I'll keep going as is untill I stall for a few weeks and then go from there.

Once I'm ready to bulk (when I can see at least the outline of some abs, and have held that weight for at least 6 weeks) I'll be doing a more traditional carb cycling plan where I track the amount on each day. For that I'll be doing mostly sweet potatos and 2 MD shakes with either ground up oats or rice flour as corst has suggested above, if it blends well.

*Edit* I Just read CT's codex, holy crap you're right about scary high number of cal's and carbs LOL

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hankinstien
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66

nate -- sounds awesome, keep us posted on how this continues to work out for you.

As far as my progress, I'm 6 days in, and it's going pretty well. After a carb day I look and feel a little bloated, but after a low day I'm pretty lean. I haven't weighed yet, and I'm avoiding the temptation to. I only want to weigh myself every 2 weeks or so at most, just to not worry myself with the massive fluctuations that are likely to happen with this.

I do love that I can lift more. I'm continuing to go up in all lifts, and since my numbers have been totally stalled or dropping for months now, this is a great feeling. I'm actually getting stronger in my weaker lifts, which is a great feeling.

I had a couple of questions, if anyone experienced in this can chime in:

1) Would it be beneficial to split the post workout meal into a pre and post? That way I could take SWF before, and Recovery after. Right now I'm doing nothing immediately before, but Recovery/rice/more protein right after.

2) Since I like to add in long bike rides, how should I approach fueling for those? I know the rides aren't great for my goals, but it's something I like to do about once a week for fun. But if I'm riding for like 2 to 4 hours, burning like 1500-3000 calories, how should I eat that day? Obviously I'll try to make it fall on a "medium carb" day if I can, but would some extra finibars or a carb meal afterwards wreck my fatloss gains? I'm not going to eat 3000 extra calories or anything, thats ridiculous, and I still want the big deficit, but I also don't want to destroy myself. Thoughts?

3) How limited do the veggies need to be? I got the feeling from the Codex discussion pages that just a serving of green veggies with every no-carb meal is ideal, but that seems very low to me. Thats like 5 or 6 bites of broccoli. I'm used to eating a bag of broccoli (4 "servings") at every meal. Do I need to limit them to one serving?

Thanks guys!

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corstijeir
Level 100

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3422

Hank half a FINiBAR might be good before a 2 hour bike ride depending on your pace.

Some extra carbs after wont hurt either. Throw in some extra rice or potato.

I'm not 100% sure on number 3 but I say eat as many as you like.

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nateschmidt24
Level 10

Join date: Nov 2009
Posts: 611

I'd say if you want to add Surge Workout Fuel have that before and during, and then just subtract the amount of carbs from the total you need post-workout, but that's just my guess (and the way I'll probably do it next phase)

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hankinstien
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66

Thanks guys. Yeah, I figured it would be allright if I just moved some of the post amounts to pre. Part of that question was just me looking for an excuse to try SWF, since I've never used it before.

Things are continuing to go well so far. I had some cheat foods on easter and paid for it today by just feeling awful and sluggish. My workout wasn't nearly as good as I feel it should have been.

I should be on "normal" for a while, and I'm planning a cheat meal on May 7--but thats only because I'm doing a 60 mile bike race that day, so it shouldn't cause TOO much damage.

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hankinstien
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2010
Posts: 66

Had a great workout tonight, also the first time I've ever tried to use Workout Fuel. It wasn't the big influx of energy and power that I expected, I felt normal throughout the workout, although I did increase in most lifts (in fact, on Bent Over Rows, I accidentally put 10 pounds more on the bar than I meant to, and didn't notice at all until the 2nd set was over). But what I really noticed that was different is that my energy just... wouldn't... die....

Usually at the end of a workout, I'm totally drained, just worn out, spent, and not much use for anything other than napping. I usually workout for about an hour, give or take a bit. Tonight, I finished everything at the 70 minute mark, which is about normal, and realized that I still had plenty of energy. I added in 3 sets of dips, and some sprint intervals before calling it quits, and after my PWO stuff, I wasn't nearly as drained as normal. I was still awake, ready to go, and feelin' good.

So yeah, hopefully I don't feel hurtin' in the morning since I've got a 50 mile bike ride on the schedule for 8 am...

PS - I also used straps for the first time. They make a HUGE difference. Not only can I put more weight on the bar without having to stop sets halfway through to reset my grip, and not only do I not have to worry about callouses getting torn off (which has happened more than once on DLs) but I felt like I was getting a lot more focus on my back during the Bent Over Rows. Thats a movement I tend to cheat on a little more than I'd like, but the straps helped keep it real.

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