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V-Diet 3.5...ish
 

Ken Rose
Level 10

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 214

Hi guys,
I've done the V-Diet 4 times now. I really like it because of the structure that it provides; it also fits in very well with my busy season at work when I'm coaching track. I've gone from about 245 down to 205 at my lowest, but I'm up to about 215 now with some poor food choices through Dec and Jan.

I'm planning my 5th V-Diet this April and have a few thoughts and questions that I would like the opinions of Chris and others.

1. For the first 4, I used the beginners workout with some modifications, namely barbell squats and bench in place of dumbells. I just finished the 6 week medium program (without the diet) so that I could determine my starting weights for the spring. Now, after doing the medium program, I'm not sure if it is any more intense that what I was doing for the beginner program. So here is my question. Will the intermediate program give more results as far as muscle gain or it the most important thing 100% intensity.

2. I'm a little skeptical of the pulse fasts. The V-Diet works very well for me and I don't want to go through the efforts of it and not get good results because I've tried something different. However, if everyone here feels that it's worth it and has definitely seen improvements then I will give it a go. But how? Once per week or twice? If I did it on Thursdays (my non workout day) should I skip the anaconda.

3. Has anyone tried to do a pulse fast just with 1/2 scoop of Metabolic Drive per serving and not with MAG-10? The macronutrient breakdown is similar.

4. If I do the pulse fast with the V-Diet, what do I cut out, the transition week? Has anyone did the full 6 week program with 1 pulse fast per week?

Thanks in advance.

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

Ken Rose wrote:
Hi guys,
I've done the V-Diet 4 times now. I really like it because of the structure that it provides; it also fits in very well with my busy season at work when I'm coaching track. I've gone from about 245 down to 205 at my lowest, but I'm up to about 215 now with some poor food choices through Dec and Jan.

I'm planning my 5th V-Diet this April and have a few thoughts and questions that I would like the opinions of Chris and others.

1. For the first 4, I used the beginners workout with some modifications, namely barbell squats and bench in place of dumbells. I just finished the 6 week medium program (without the diet) so that I could determine my starting weights for the spring. Now, after doing the medium program, I'm not sure if it is any more intense that what I was doing for the beginner program. So here is my question. Will the intermediate program give more results as far as muscle gain or it the most important thing 100% intensity.

2. I'm a little skeptical of the pulse fasts. The V-Diet works very well for me and I don't want to go through the efforts of it and not get good results because I've tried something different. However, if everyone here feels that it's worth it and has definitely seen improvements then I will give it a go. But how? Once per week or twice? If I did it on Thursdays (my non workout day) should I skip the anaconda.

3. Has anyone tried to do a pulse fast just with 1/2 scoop of Metabolic Drive per serving and not with MAG-10? The macronutrient breakdown is similar.

4. If I do the pulse fast with the V-Diet, what do I cut out, the transition week? Has anyone did the full 6 week program with 1 pulse fast per week?

Thanks in advance.


1. I always go for intensity, but maybe you're ready for a new challenge i.e. the next level of the program?

2. Using Pulse Fasts alone, it's once or twice per week with days in between. Adding it to the V-Diet is all a big experiment right now, but when I did it, I went twice per week for a two-week V-Diet. It was all I needed. The idea I'm playing with now is That plan, Week 3 = HSMs, then two more weeks of V-Diet plus Pulse Fasts.

3. Would not provide the same effect at all. The protein much be rapid, not "slow" as with MD. Even whey is too slow. Only the MAG-10 formula gets it and clears out fast enough to get the pulse effect.

4. As I wrote above, it's all a big experiment right now. You are your own lab wabbit.

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nater77
Level 100

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 143

Great discussion...here are my two cents:

1. The beauty of the V-Diet is its simplicity. I think open discussion among vets is the best way to "tweak" it. If you create alternate versions for different groups of people, it takes away that simplicity.

2. The workouts are simple...not sure why people get confused.

3. I've done the V-Diet 4 times, starting with the original back in Jan '06 and my last this past Oct '10. The first time through I did Thibs Beast Evolves program and had great results. I've done the Waterbury workouts and had great results. This past Sep/Oct I was in the middle of DeFranco's Built Like a Badass and totally loved it.

It hits all the different training protocols, proper warm-up/mobility stuff, strength, hypertrophy, and kick-ass finishers for conditioning/shredding fat. I would say changing the workout protocols to something like DeFranco's plan would be great and you wouldn't need to have three different training programs.

4. Adding a pulse fast is a must for a vet but I'm not sold on making it a "permanent" part of the V-Diet. Like I said in point #1, it could be an "unofficial" addition to the program for those seeking faster results.

That's about it for now...time for the gym.

Nate

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

Thanks the feedback here, Nate.

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6stringsling
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 414

Chris,

I have found Waterbury's programming to be excellent and very easy to follow. Just print out the workout sheets, get a stopwatch and go to it! Admittedly, I have read lots of his material and know how he likes things done, so that has helped. I also think many folks like to "overcomplicate" the training, as well as the diet, in hopes of hearing they can slack off or not give 100%. Personally, my body did not "like" the flax at all. But I used it as outlined in the programming and now I know how my body will respond next time.

I really enjoyed, and agree with, what Nate said about Joe DeFranco's program. It is a complete program, hitting mobility, explosiveness, strength, hypertrophy and cardio/complexes/endurance. It would probably be tough on the V-Diet, but some tweaking may make it ideal. For me, I want to utilize training methods that incorporate all of the above, as I want to be more go than show. Our bodies are amazingly efficient machines and it will find the most effective way of lessening the demands placed upon it. So, variety and intensity are keys for me in improving, no matter the program i'm following.

Lastly, I have not done any pulse fasting yet, but want to try it in an upcoming V-Diet for myself. I would also like to incorporate the ANACONDA Protocol into the V-Diet, maybe replacing Surge Recovery with the ANACONDA Protocol. I'm not yet sure how it would best be implemented within the established parameters of the V-Diet, but I am trying to find a way to make it work. I am open to any suggestions!

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

6stringsling wrote:
Chris,

I have found Waterbury's programming to be excellent and very easy to follow. Just print out the workout sheets, get a stopwatch and go to it! Admittedly, I have read lots of his material and know how he likes things done, so that has helped. I also think many folks like to "overcomplicate" the training, as well as the diet, in hopes of hearing they can slack off or not give 100%. Personally, my body did not "like" the flax at all. But I used it as outlined in the programming and now I know how my body will respond next time.

I really enjoyed, and agree with, what Nate said about Joe DeFranco's program. It is a complete program, hitting mobility, explosiveness, strength, hypertrophy and cardio/complexes/endurance. It would probably be tough on the V-Diet, but some tweaking may make it ideal. For me, I want to utilize training methods that incorporate all of the above, as I want to be more go than show. Our bodies are amazingly efficient machines and it will find the most effective way of lessening the demands placed upon it. So, variety and intensity are keys for me in improving, no matter the program i'm following.

Lastly, I have not done any pulse fasting yet, but want to try it in an upcoming V-Diet for myself. I would also like to incorporate the ANACONDA Protocol into the V-Diet, maybe replacing Surge Recovery with the ANACONDA Protocol. I'm not yet sure how it would best be implemented within the established parameters of the V-Diet, but I am trying to find a way to make it work. I am open to any suggestions!



Thanks for your input.

I'm against eating solid foods except with the HSM when on the V-Diet. That includes FINiBAR. What I see is that bad dietary habits don't get broken when "eating" is still allowed (vs. drinking shakes). I'm open to V-Diet vets experimenting with MAG-10 and Anaconda since both are low cal and carb free -- they fit very well with fat loss dieting.

Now, if you're not V-Dieting to break bad eating habits, then you could probably drop Surge Recovery and replace with FINiBAR. MAG-10, Anaconda, etc.

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6stringsling
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 414

My bad! I have had solid results with the Anaconda Protocol 2. The one without using FINiBARs. Sorry for not distinguish between the AP1 and AP2. I haven't had a FINiBAR at all, so I do not know much about them, but I definitely agree with not eating except for the HSM once a week. So how would you recommend incorporating MAG-10, Anaconda and SWF in the V-Diet 3.0 along with 2 Pulse Fasts a week? Would you drop Surge Recovery completely but add in 2 scoops Anaconda, 2 scoops MAG-10 and 1 scoop SWF for the 3 weekly weight training sessions?

Also, I do not want to get away from the established V-Diet guidelines too much, but would it be cool to experiment with dropping the flax and natural nut butter, but add in additional sugar free fiber tabs and FA3? Any thoughts.

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

6stringsling wrote:
My bad! I have had solid results with the Anaconda Protocol 2. The one without using FINiBARs. Sorry for not distinguish between the AP1 and AP2. I haven't had a FINiBAR at all, so I do not know much about them, but I definitely agree with not eating except for the HSM once a week. So how would you recommend incorporating MAG-10, Anaconda and SWF in the V-Diet 3.0 along with 2 Pulse Fasts a week? Would you drop Surge Recovery completely but add in 2 scoops Anaconda, 2 scoops MAG-10 and 1 scoop SWF for the 3 weekly weight training sessions?

Also, I do not want to get away from the established V-Diet guidelines too much, but would it be cool to experiment with dropping the flax and natural nut butter, but add in additional sugar free fiber tabs and FA3? Any thoughts.



Both of your ideas are pretty darn close to what I've been thinking and experimenting with.

I'd like to work in FA3 and get rid of the PB -- some can't control the portion, others are allergic, and some are too dumb to refrigerate it. Same for flax -- it doesn't sit well with some folks and some can never seem to find it in stores. I also want the V-Diet to be a one-stop shop rather than asking people to buy a big package then go buy more stuff at WalMart.

I've also been playing with doing a two week V-Diet with added Pulse Fasts twice per week, then having a week of HSMs, then another 2 week V-Diet with Pulse Fasts. The packages would be smaller and cover two weeks at a time. Of course, a person could order the full plan all at once if they're committed.

Just thinking out loud here...

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6stringsling
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 414

I like what I'm hearing Chris! I have a little more planning to do to ensure I do things right and that all the variables are well controlled. And i think the 2 weeks of clear focus with a week of HSMs along with 2 additional weeks of strict dietary control would be awesome. And this could possibly be staggered over any length of time. That is, do it until one's desired BF % are achieved and sufficient dietary reprogramming/ control is well ingrained. Hmmm....

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Weevo
Level 10

Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 755

Well, for anyone looking to cut some weight, this worked for me: three weeks of normal eating with two weekly pulse fasts, one on Sunday and one on Thursday. Lost 18lbs. I've never been this lean before.

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

Weevo wrote:
Well, for anyone looking to cut some weight, this worked for me: three weeks of normal eating with two weekly pulse fasts, one on Sunday and one on Thursday. Lost 18lbs. I've never been this lean before.



Awesome!

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Weevo
Level 10

Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 755

I thought so too. Btw I want to clarify, when I Say normal eating on the other days I actually mean it, even on the day after a pulse fast. The only real difference is I bump up my peri-workout nutrition on the day after a fast. I may eat a bit more calories, like 800 above maintenance levels, but if I do so it's because I've trained twice that day.

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8thMan
Level 100

Join date: Sep 2004
Posts: 132

Thing is something I've been playing with the last couple of weeks that I think would work for the daily walks. After reading Lonnie Lowery's articles on Fasted Cardio and spot reduction of fat, I decided to add waiter's carries to fasted incline walks (4 to 10 percent incline). I use a 10 to 20 dumbell for this and hold it for 60 seconds. In the begining I tried to keep the heart rate at about 117 beats per minute, which meant slowing the treadmill down to adjust for the increase in heart rate for carrying the dumbell.

The last few times I allow the heart reate to increase for the act of carrying the dumbell and just wait until it gets back to 117 to do the other arm. It ends up being more like doing intervalls. Today I added a two handed hold out front like you would to do a goblet squat. I slip on some MAG-10 every 15 minutes. I'm hoping that I'm still burning mostly fat over this hour, and by bracing my abs during the carry I'm hoping more of it will come from the love handles.

When I do my workout later in the day I'm not noticing a big decrease in performance, but it's definelty allowing me to strengthen the abs while taking the bordom out of walking on a treadmill for an hour. I wish I had Lonnie's machine so I could fine turn this to ensure it is just fat that I'm burning though I'm not getting on a stage in a speedo any time in my life.

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

Cool idea, 8thMan. I started carrying a med ball while doing 20 minutes in the StairMill. Very tough, partly because it's extra weight and core work, but also because you can't hold on to the rails. That always jacks up the calorie burn.

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mpletten
Level 5

Join date: May 2010
Posts: 35

Chris Shugart wrote:



1. I always go for intensity, but maybe you're ready for a new challenge i.e. the next level of the program?

2. Using Pulse Fasts alone, it's once or twice per week with days in between. Adding it to the V-Diet is all a big experiment right now, but when I did it, I went twice per week for a two-week V-Diet. It was all I needed. The idea I'm playing with now is That plan, Week 3 = HSMs, then two more weeks of V-Diet plus Pulse Fasts.






Chris,

I am on my 6th and final week of my 2nd stroll through velocity.

I like your thoughts about modifying it a bit...

I think during the first 2 weeks on Velocity, you see ridiculous results on the scale. That slows down more in the second 2 weeks. But the second 2 weeks is where you really start to see your body change, when looking into the mirror.

I like the idea of doing 2 weeks, then throwing in a week of HSM, then going back for another 2 weeks, including 2 pulse fast days. Keeping the body guessing, not getting used to what you're doing, will enhance the best aspects of Velocity. And the Pulse fast will REALLY take it to the next level.

I can tell you during this week I decided to replace Monday and Thursday of Velocity with pulse fasting, and pairing the next few weeks with pulse fasting 2 days a week, along with Hypertrophy.



As a person who has an allergy to nuts my entire life, I replace the natural nut butter, with natural sunflower butter. That seems to work quite well, and I really look forward to it at the end of the day.

I don't have any issues the flax in my morning and evening shakes. I think it adds a different texture. When you're on velocity, any little addition or change I tend to look forward to.


I always talk about my results with friends and members of my gym. Most of their jaws drop, but the average person just doesn't have the motivation, discipline, and determination to actually even think about doing it. Velocity is definitely more of an elitist fitness diet, as most people just ask questions, and at the end, throw in something like "WOW, I could never do something like that, but good for you"

I get a kick out of the lack of education, motivation, and sense of pursuit the average person has.

Doing Velocity makes you look and feel at your best, and gives you that earned elitist mentality, knowing most people don't have the balls to do it.

Love being a part of the Velocity Crew, and I wear it proudly. Where can we buy shirts?! haha

-Matt

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Chris Shugart
Director of Content

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17341

Mpletten, good stuff.

Thanks for the idea on the sunflower seed butter. Glad to have that as an option.

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nateschmidt24
Level 10

Join date: Nov 2009
Posts: 611

You guys seen Thib's latest Spill on increasing arm size with a low carb diet throughout the week, then FINiBAR loading and an arm workout on saturday after a pulse-fast? Sounds like it might be a cool way to get a little hypertrophy on the V-Diet. What about V-Diet as usual, but fast on Friday, then FINiBAR load and arm (or favourite lagging muscle) workout on Saturday?

I know Chris and others would say no bars as it's food rehab, but if we're talking about our own hardcore version, most of us are more after the results than the rehab as we've done it before (generally speaking). It would require a sled, but that could also serve as the NEPA, any thoughts?

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6stringsling
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 414

Chris,

The Pulse Fast is the real deal! I got my "kit" on Thursday, quit eating by 8:30 pm Friday and started the PF then. My scale boinked out on me, so I don't know how many pounds I lost over the last 36 hours. But I can tell you this... i lost a full inch off my waist! Holy Cow, Batman! My whole body is a bit leaner and I feel great now! Everything was really easy until about 4 pm on Saturday.

I spent the day outside working on our property (cutting trees, trimming limbs, raking, burning, cutting grass, etc). I may have gotten a bit dehydrated as evidence by a small headache. But that went away after I cooled down, showered and got some water in me. But it was really simple AND effective and I can see results immediately! Granted, I have a bit of fat to lose, but what a great start. Maybe the V-Diet should kick off with this protocol for the first day to really fire up the ol' metabolism. And increase one's anticipation for the shakes!

Thanks for the Pulse Fast suggestion! I look forward to doing this weekly for a while (minus the 8 hours of continuous labor). Any news on the V-Diet + Pulse Fast package? Maybe with additional FA3?

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BigBeck89
Level 4

Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 89

Well summer is almost here (as pointed out by nater77 http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...eady_for_summer The last few weeks have been hectic (with final projects and preparing for finals) but I am excited. With the last of this years tuition paid, and the soon to be had income from working in the summer, I think its time to try the "upgraded" v-diet I've been wanting to try. Here's what I'm doing.

1. Shorter- only doing 3 weeks for the main phase
2. Pulse Fasts - doing 1 pulse fast per week right before HSM day
3. Workouts - Im following Martin Rooneys Plan from his latest book

Everything else (supplements, meal timings, hsm schedule, weighing, etc) will be straight from V-Diet guidelines. I already placed my order. I bought the pulse fast package and then bought reduced amounts of MD and the other supps. It did work out cheaper significantly cheaper, but it helped that I already had a few of the needed supps on me.

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Ken Rose
Level 10

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 214

I'm bumping this because thoughts seem to have tailed off. I'd like to hear from people here who have combined the V Diet and Pulse Fasts as to their experiences.

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ozzyaaron
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2008
Posts: 310

I feel it's like anything, you achieve competency and mastery through imitation. After that is genius and innovation :)

I've done it three times myself by the book over the last three years. I find myself I tend to do a short 2-3 week version each year to kick start some other goal as well.

I think the Waterbury workouts are too complex given that the primary avenue of fat loss here is due to carloric deficit. Personally after the first two runs I swapped it out for a programme very similar to 5/3/1. Super simple, in and out of the gym, with a great mix of heavy sets and light sets (usually do boring but big). I've lost more weight and kept more muscle this way to be honest ...

Also I tend to find that the fourth week represents the lowest loss week (obviously) it's more of a habit cementing week rather than a weight loss week. I think the idea of allowing you to transition off at the 3rd week is fine if you went into it with good eating habits. If you went into it overweight with bad habits though, then look at the fourth week as a habit helper rather than weight loss.

That's my thoughts.

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Cr Powerlinate
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2008
Posts: 281

I'd swap FA3/Inulin/Additional fiber product for the flax and PB.

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johnward82
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2008
Posts: 336

Ive done it twice, once was after a year long stint of diet and exercise for the first time in my life when I realized I was a fatass, and I was hoping to loose that last little bit of stubborn fat, but looking back I think my metabolism was shot and I just spun my wheels with it. I did learn some things, and realized that for me, it was a really good detox and a good will power test. I think I stopped a few days short, as I wasn't feeling well.

I got off track of clean and good eating for a while as I was trying to increase size and strength and realized I was fatter than I would like and eating junk again, so I used it to detox and start getting back on track. Again, somewhere in the third week, I stopped, as I was feeling a little sick, I think from the shakes. Again, the diet provided the things I really needed and wanted from it.

Currently I am considering giving it another go, but I am not sure. I haven't tried MAG-10 and pulsing yet, and it seems like it might be a great tool to use with the program. I had considered making a V-Diet mini and going 2-3 weeks and then I saw this thread seeing that some folks were doing/considering doing the same thing. This time though, I need the diet for its great work at fat loss, and am still just on the fence of doing it again

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