V-Diet 3.0 has been out for a while now, and I thought it would be cool to have a central place where vets can compare and contrast notes (hey the program required extensive note taking after all) and mention things we would like to see if it ever gets *officially* re-worked. Until that happens we can simply think of this as a forum to alpha test new things.

Now the V-Diet as I used it was more in terms of "I have a big event on this date and want to be at most very best physically then". So that is where I will be coming at this from, but I hope everyone else who came from a different angle (such as using it to jump start larger fat-loss) would pitch in their ideas too.

From my last experience this is the wish-list I came up with:

1) 3 weeks instead of 4

This comes from the fact that in my experience I got to where I wanted to be in terms of body comp at the end of week 3. This would also have the nice side effect of lowering the actual cost (less protein needed). I guess this is where what you are shooting for comes into play, for jump starting a larger fat-loss maybe 4 weeks is better...perhaps separate protocols?

2) Implementing a Pulse Fast

I figure this would be implemented right around the HSM, either before or after. Again this might also bring cost down due to less protein, or it might be a wash because of the new supplements it introduces...not sure. This one is interesting to me because as I mentioned before I was happy after 3 weeks, but I wonder what would have happened with some IF.

3) New training template

Ok, there is nothing wrong with the current one. I especially loved seeing my Challenge time come way down.

any other thoughts

Great idea Beck. I feel using MAG-10 periworkout allow some tweaks to the workout increasing fat burning while preserving or even increaseing musclemass. I'd like to try using it instead of Surge Recovery.

Here's some things I've tried and liked. I finished a V-Diet as is then a few weeks later jumped into another one with some changes, I think though I should have waited, as my body seemed used to a mostly MD shake diet, and I didn't lose a whole lot of fat. Anyways.

1) Pulse-fasting. I did this twice a week, usually Monday and and Thursday

2) Extra peri-workout nutrition, in the form of Surge Workout Fuel. I used this on the days following the pulse to try for some anabolic rebound action. Thinking of this now, I think I'd drop the extra Workout Fuel. It definitely helped with some of the workout performance but maybe some BCAA would have been better, less carbs and all that

2) Totally changed up the workouts, I did sprints and bodyweight stuff of the pulse days, and my other 2 workouts were 5x3 as heavy as I could A: Deadlift, Overhead Press and Chinup B: Squat, Bench Press, BB Row. I really liked this as it really helps hold onto muscle and I was able to add weight each workout. (I'm the first to admit I'm not that strong so this may not hold true for everyone).

3) Timeframe, I stuck with this for three weeks, with an HSM each weekend.

I wonder if maybe a pulse fast mid-week, and then use the pulse feast on the weekend HSM day might be a good way to go, it would use about the same amount of MAG-10 as 2 fast days and might make the HSM a little more anabolic. Of course when trying to do that, like what I did with the extra Surge might be chasing too many rabbits as they say, instead of leaving this as an ultimate fat burning diet?

We should come up with a collaborative plan and then a bunch of us should test it on ourselves. Maybe Chris can convince Coach Thib to hook us up with a workout ;)

Great thread. Always good to hear from V-Diet vets, especially those who've done it once or twice by the book and are now tweaking it to fit their needs. I very much appreciate your input.

The V-Diet attracts two types of people: 1) Very hardcore, dedicated folks, and 2) total newbies, many of whom have never had a single protein shake before beginning.

Question: We know that a Pulse Fast or two, thrown into the V-Diet plan, is a winner, greatly enhancing the fat loss and habit-killing effect, but is it too much for category #2 people? I mean, some of them think they're dying drinking 5 thick, rich, filling protein shakes per day. A 36-hour MAG-10 fast might be too much for them, even though it's clearly the answer for accelerated fat loss.

Your thoughts, vets?

I agree with everyone else so far, just a quick browsing of the Ask Chris thread shows that Pulse Fasts would be WAY to much for a newbie. That said, a person using the V-Diet as more of an event prep sort of thing would be perfect.

This seems like the most reasonable thing to do would be have two versions, but I have the feeling that even that would cause headaches (at least for Chris) when someone thinks they can do the one when they should have done the other.

I'll be honest, I didn't use the V-Diet workout at all. I work out at home. And while there isn't too many exercises I can't do here, I just found the workout too complicated. I used (and still do for the most part) EDT. I thought it was great with the V-Diet. No thinking at all. Come in, lift at least one more rep or one more pound and leave. Then a no-brainer nutrition plan. It was a very "easy" 4 weeks.

I am very curious as to how the IF will work though and will be trying it soon.

After completing two successful V-Diets, one by the book and one 98% by the book (added in FA-3 and didn't measure nightly PB), here are my thoughts:

1. I agree with everyone else that the Fasts and Feasts are too much for someone first time through. No need to complicate things...

2. A "modified" version is a good idea for veterans, but I don't think it should be an "official" diet...just something we have discussed amongst ourselves (this thread?) and bounced pros and cons off each other...then to each his own...

3. Workouts are good...I really have no idea why people have such a hard time understanding them, and that makes me cry a bit for humanity...it really doesn't get any simpler than the given weight/rep scheme....I train 5-3-1 most of the year and I think the V-Diet workouts are a good break from that...

4. For vets, I think including a Pulse Fast mid week and a Pulse Feast the day of the HSM would be an excellent idea...

5. Perhaps Pulse Feast protocol for the transition weeks (for both vets and n00bs)...this would complicate the package a bit since you would have MD for the 4 weeks, then MAG-10 for transition, but may be workable? It seems to fit in line with the "spirit" of transition...

6. I'd like to see some aspect of the Anaconda Protocol adopted as the peri-workout plan for the V-Diet (vets and n00bs)...But then again, this may be overkill for noobs as any training and Recovery will likely be anabolic for them...

I fail to see the confusion. Find your 4-6RM or 8-9RM for the given session. Lift fast. When you can't lift fast anymore and/or your form alters due to fatigue, the set is over. Rest the prescribed amount of time. Repeat this process until you finish the designated number of repetitions. Seems pretty straightforward.

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming.

Thought: I'm not sure I want to cater to the softcore. I think I'd rather cater to the passionate, the people who do what's needed for the fastest, best results, rather than catering to the "wimps" i.e. the average person who wants the easier plan.

As I wrote in a past blog, give me the "crazy" people, the obsessives.

I just don't want to water down the best course of action.

Your thoughts, V-Diet Vets?

Maybe have two versions: one for the crazy people (hardcore), and one for people who are sort of middle of the road, kind of like the V-Diet Lite. That could mean maybe four weeks of V-Dieting, and two days per week could be a pulse feast rather than a fast.

I"m with Chris, go hardcore or go home.

I think we all seem to agree for the harcore a pulse fast or 2 would be ideal. What about during the week 2 pulse fast days, and on the weekend use the pulse-feast day with the HSM, those of us doing it will be hardore and able to follow the guidelines, and by now should be able to autoregulate a good feast.

none of this "Chris I had a small chicken breast and spinach is that ok?" to the "I had 12 baked potatoes with lots of butter and sour cream, that't paleo right?"

What would be cool would be a training program that would be specifically tailored to the diet. For example with a pulse feast on Saturday, I would think that would be the most heavy, hypertrophy focused day?

Maybe do this approach for 3 weeks, with one week transition?

I would say yes to tailoring to hardcore....anyone who cannot commit can just browser the forums and pick up some v-life guidelines.

I think if I designed the program, all the workouts would be 25 reps at your 4-6RM with 30 seconds rest between sets. And I'd probably drag a tire, push the prowler, or do sprints in place of the V-burn.

So three total body sessions and a sprint/prowler/sled as the fourth? Same deal as now and drop rest periods each week and try to add weight if possible?

I'm going to do a one week version this week, Fasting Tuesday and Friday with workouts monday, wednesday, thursday and saturday. I'm on the deload week in Show & Go so I'll just use those workouts and on the off days I'm going to do sled sprints. I'm going mix it up a bit and have a few whole nuts and coconut oil for my fats and use a fibre supp instead of flax. (most of that is just to use up what I have) So I won't call this a new experiment or anything just hoping to tighenten up a bit, I've got a wedding next saturday.