I am looking to lean out by spring and while I have dieted down many times in the past, I have never taken it beyond "damage control" just to get back into good enough shape for me to feel good and look decent.

Problem:

The last time I dropped weight, I used CT's strategy for larger lifters which was basically very strict low carb dieting mon, tues, wed, cheat day/meal on thursday, low carb friday, saturday, and then cheat day on Sunday.

This worked great until I hit about 260-265lbs and I started feeling like I was losing muscle fullness big time. I could have also just been under a lot of stress from moving at the same time so maybe that is the cause.

Findings: I have dropped about 10lbs in the last two weeks from eating low carb 4 days a week and then increasing carbs the other three days with no loss of strength.

I am wondering if a strategy like that may work better long term or if I just need to accept feeling and looking flat when I hit the "265" range.

Conclusion: I am wondering if longer periods of high carbs may work better for me because clearly the "low carb/MAG-10/eat more carbs around lifting times" works for me but it does not seem to hold muscle as well if I go all out on low carbs every single day.

Then again, maybe this is all in my head.

Well, when I dieted. I was very low carb for around 12 weeks and started to feel like shit and looked pretty flat, like how you described.

The good thing though was after that long of low carb my insulin sensitivity was awesome, so for the last 4 weeks I had carbs with every meal. I lost another 10 lbs and really seemed to fill out as well.

Point being, at some point you have to accept that you're not going to look as awesome at some points when fat loss is the goal.

I like that rule of thumb with dieting; you're always going to look worse before you look better but eventually you'll make a break through. Just gotta have the mental fortitude to work past that point and you're golden.

I think another thing you have to add is that the scale is just one more tool to assess your fat loss progress. The first thing I'd do is to be honest where I'm at regarding bodyfat percentage and where I wanna go. Say you wanna get 10%; then you gotta subtract possible water and glycogen weight, or about another third, to the weight you'd have to loose. This is not like a dogma one should follow, just a realistic guideline to have a better clue where you're gonna be at.
The next step would be the speed of the cut, and the risks. If you're gonna loose 2 pounds per week in 12 weeks I don't see great risk of losing muscle mass (as long as you don't loose strength) because you're a very big and muscular individual.
Next issue is to use and increase gradually, as needed the diet and cardio, you can add in a fat burner, but it would be after dieting for some time and being near your goal. If you've experimented with your body in the weight/fat loss field, you can already know what types of cardio are the best for your fat loss, and get to exploit them gradually.
Dietwise, I think that a guy of your size wouldn't do very well with low carb diets. The best for you would be to set a carb baseline where you loose the desired weekly weight, and then work carbs down and protein up, but still decreasing the total caloric needs.

I hope this helps to serve your purpose and contribute to you a small part of what you have contributed to lots of posters.

I have always thought that a low carb diets will mean less stored glycogen, which means less water in the muscle which causes a flat look with looser skin, as well as being a little weaker, though I found this to be temporary. I would not judge your loss of muscle by being a little weaker, it may be just due to less energy stores during that time period. When you have a higher carb day, your subQ water follows the increased glycogen stores into your muscles, which gives the muscle a fuller look pulling your (dryer)skin tighter. I think this type of diet works great, but plays with your head during the low carb days. A slow longer diet will perserve more muscle.

When I dieted, I liked baked sweet potatoes. I would cook several in advance, refridgerate in tin foil, and take them with me, amd eat them cold. Sounds unappealing, but when on a long term low carb diet, they start to taste like a dessert.

X,

Like a lot of the guys have said, there is going to be a point where your mind screws with you and you will have to decide to deal with not looking as impressive for awhile to obtain your long-term goal. The only thing that really works for me as far as dieting is low carb and for me, it has to be so low it may as well be zero carb. The flatness bothered me, but I can't really say that I noticed myself getting any weaker and while a lot of guys complain about getting gassed quicker, I never seem to have that issue, either.

I do look forward to hearing what your experiences are, as I will probably be working on getting leaner starting in January. Right now, i am enjoying working out after having had a 5 month layoff and I am enjoying the strength and growth that is happening due to muscle memory and my body re-adapting to working out, right now. :-)

I appreciate the help, guys....and bwhitwell, you need to post more. Your opinion and advice are missed.

It looks like I need to just push through it...and maybe see about adding Surge to my program in some way.

Other post doesn't appear for me to edit...so I'll add here. Since you like the low carb days, just roll with them until you feel like you're losing energy even with the 2 day carb up. Maybe then add the "timed" carb approach in most days, and only do really low carb 1 ro 2 days of the week.

It's the mental barrier, just like with gaining. Just remember you're a hell of a lot bigger than most people ever see, even if you look flat haha :)

I met Bill Kazmair back in the early 80's before he attempted a new bench press record and he stated that he increased his salt intake for the water retension which gave his joints and muscles more support. I agree with Aragorn that fluid levels being low from the low carb diet will decrease strength levels for several reasons.

Alot of really good responses here X. One more to add is make sure you take progress pics to "truly" see how you look. When Ive dieted down from around 240 at 5'10" I thought I looked really good until I saw some pics of me at a wedding. I decided to diet down and not get on the scale until I "looked leaner". Well during this time I felt small less pumped and a little weak...But when I took pics of my progress I was very pleased with my fat loss at a body weight of 223. Alot of it is mental me thinks...

One thing that's always surprisingly fascinating is the fact that when people start to diet, they get smaller/flatter, and they look it. But once they get to a certain point of leaness, they actually *look* bigger than before while bulked (even though they aren't).

The "middle ground" is one of the worse situations to be in because you look flat and you're quite fat at the same time, this period feels like forever...lol

I think it's very important to break it up, because despite carb cycling etc, your gains will slow down. Say every 3-5 days, spike carbs AND calories. And every 12 weeks, have 2 weeks or so of normal eating (get in your calories).

I think some people just need carbs, and low carb diets don't suit them at all. I changed my opinion of carbs etc when I started experimenting with higher carbs (I actually burned fat better!...contrary to the mainstream belief)

A highly recommended read is "Macrobolic Nutrition":


My 2 cents...

BWHitwell hit in on the head. The first time I ever tried varying carb intake (long before any of the complicated cycling I do now for shows), I would eat lower amounts of carbs during the week, and then load up on weekends. Without fail, by Friday afternoons each week I looked like crap; flat, no roundness to my muscles etc. By Sunday morning I would be filling out and looking vastly different. Monday in the gym, I'd be starting off with my glycogen levels topped off and looking like a tank (only to slowly loss fullness again as the week went on).

The point is that I didn't lose muscle during the week, I just initially thought that I did. Of course, by the same account, your 10 lbs of weight loss in those 2 weeks of low carb was most likely glycogen, water and fiber (I believe the figure of amounts of water stored to carbs ingested is slightly less than 4:1). That is why anyone who tried Atkins, or any form of Keto experiencing initial sudden drops in scale weight. Think about the amount of calories you'd need to be in an actual deficit to lose 10 lbs in 2 weeks -lol.

This is the point where your mind is gonna screw with you pretty intensely PX, because if you're doing any type of BBing geared diet (muscle retention and fat loss being primary goals), you can look drastically different from one day to the next.

S