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Back-Breaking: Recovery and Management
 

bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB


Thanks triple B....
Do you the GHRP6 would be beneficial in recovery?? If so, I would be interested in what protocol you would recommend.

I'll have plenty of time to devise a plan to come back...Unfortunately, I think I'll have to cap my squats at around 225 and probably DL's too, but there's no rule saying I can do that for 50 reps...
Obviously, that is a working up to 50 reps....

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB


Thanks triple B....
Do you the GHRP6 would be beneficial in recovery?? If so, I would be interested in what protocol you would recommend.

I'll have plenty of time to devise a plan to come back...Unfortunately, I think I'll have to cap my squats at around 225 and probably DL's too, but there's no rule saying I can do that for 50 reps...
Obviously, that is a working up to 50 reps....


GHRP 6 or 2 or iapomorelin with or without CJC would definitely be a boon to recovery, performance and wellbeing.

100mcg of GHRP6/2 2-4 x daily, 15 minutes before food would be a good, basic protocol IMO.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

Welp, that seemed to sting a little...I got the whole thing addressed so as to have my back opened only one time. The dr. told me that if we just went with the initial recommendation, I'd be back in the OR with in 2 years...
So, two level fusion, L4-S1 with spacers.... It did hurt a little, not gonna lie. I should be able to start back with cardio in about 7 more weeks, light resistance training, in about 11 more weeks, but a return to near normal won't be but for 6 months. Gone through to much to play games with it.

I got pictures, but I haven't looked and I can give a more detailed account of my experience if anybody gives a shit. But I an not going to give my self carpal-tunnel if nobody does.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Now would be the time for some GHRP to boost osteoblastic activity and ensure a good level of bone mineralisation and a solid union between the fused bones.

Or you can wait 6 months or more and hope that it fuses. If you are like a guy I talked to at the gym (he's about your age) then after 18 months you may find that it still hasn't fused properly.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
Now would be the time for some GHRP to boost osteoblastic activity and ensure a good level of bone mineralisation and a solid union between the fused bones.

Or you can wait 6 months or more and hope that it fuses. If you are like a guy I talked to at the gym (he's about your age) then after 18 months you may find that it still hasn't fused properly.

BBB


Which is better, 2 or 6?

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Now would be the time for some GHRP to boost osteoblastic activity and ensure a good level of bone mineralisation and a solid union between the fused bones.

Or you can wait 6 months or more and hope that it fuses. If you are like a guy I talked to at the gym (he's about your age) then after 18 months you may find that it still hasn't fused properly.

BBB


Which is better, 2 or 6?


I prefer 6, since it doesn't give me the hunger spike any more (generally that side effect is no longer apparent after 5-10 days anyway) and I never got on with 2; it gave me strange gut contractions, like it was locking everything up. In a sense this isn't too unexpected. After all, if G6 speeds up gut transit, it's possible that G2 might have some gut action too.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Now would be the time for some GHRP to boost osteoblastic activity and ensure a good level of bone mineralisation and a solid union between the fused bones.

Or you can wait 6 months or more and hope that it fuses. If you are like a guy I talked to at the gym (he's about your age) then after 18 months you may find that it still hasn't fused properly.

BBB


Which is better, 2 or 6?


I prefer 6, since it doesn't give me the hunger spike any more (generally that side effect is no longer apparent after 5-10 days anyway) and I never got on with 2; it gave me strange gut contractions, like it was locking everything up. In a sense this isn't too unexpected. After all, if G6 speeds up gut transit, it's possible that G2 might have some gut action too.

BBB


Ordered...better not give me horns or something weird....

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Shouldn't do, though the source may be questionable I suppose.

Actually, I wish you'd bought the 2. Read something today which changed my thinking a little.

Still the GHRP6 should still do you proud.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB


Thanks triple B....
Do you the GHRP6 would be beneficial in recovery?? If so, I would be interested in what protocol you would recommend.

I'll have plenty of time to devise a plan to come back...Unfortunately, I think I'll have to cap my squats at around 225 and probably DL's too, but there's no rule saying I can do that for 50 reps...
Obviously, that is a working up to 50 reps....


GHRP 6 or 2 or iapomorelin with or without CJC would definitely be a boon to recovery, performance and wellbeing.

100mcg of GHRP6/2 2-4 x daily, 15 minutes before food would be a good, basic protocol IMO.

BBB


I think I need a better source. Where I got it sent me a little bitty vial I had to pry open.
Is there a good source that makes it for oral consumption? I am to old and tired to screw with making injectables for myself. I want to just eat it and go. I you have good source or suggestion for one, please PM me.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB


Thanks triple B....
Do you the GHRP6 would be beneficial in recovery?? If so, I would be interested in what protocol you would recommend.

I'll have plenty of time to devise a plan to come back...Unfortunately, I think I'll have to cap my squats at around 225 and probably DL's too, but there's no rule saying I can do that for 50 reps...
Obviously, that is a working up to 50 reps....


GHRP 6 or 2 or iapomorelin with or without CJC would definitely be a boon to recovery, performance and wellbeing.

100mcg of GHRP6/2 2-4 x daily, 15 minutes before food would be a good, basic protocol IMO.

BBB


I think I need a better source. Where I got it sent me a little bitty vial I had to pry open.
Is there a good source that makes it for oral consumption? I am to old and tired to screw with making injectables for myself. I want to just eat it and go. I you have good source or suggestion for one, please PM me.

Peptides are broken down by stomach acid and do not effectively pass through the oral mucosa.

Sorry mate, but like anything worthwhile, you need to put in at least a little effort.

Come on man, it's really not that hard. Simply inject 1ml of sterile water into the vial SLOWLY and not directly onto the powder.

Draw the 1ml into an insulin syringe. Inject the correct amount - I can help you with that if you tell me the mg amount in the vial - subQ (or IM) and simply place the needle back into the fridge for next time.

Inject 15 minutes before food, since glucose and fats will blunt the response.

BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Chin up my man!

Let us know how the surgery goes.

BBB


Thanks triple B....
Do you the GHRP6 would be beneficial in recovery?? If so, I would be interested in what protocol you would recommend.

I'll have plenty of time to devise a plan to come back...Unfortunately, I think I'll have to cap my squats at around 225 and probably DL's too, but there's no rule saying I can do that for 50 reps...
Obviously, that is a working up to 50 reps....


GHRP 6 or 2 or iapomorelin with or without CJC would definitely be a boon to recovery, performance and wellbeing.

100mcg of GHRP6/2 2-4 x daily, 15 minutes before food would be a good, basic protocol IMO.

BBB


I think I need a better source. Where I got it sent me a little bitty vial I had to pry open.
Is there a good source that makes it for oral consumption? I am to old and tired to screw with making injectables for myself. I want to just eat it and go. I you have good source or suggestion for one, please PM me.

Peptides are broken down by stomach acid and do not effectively pass through the oral mucosa.

Sorry mate, but like anything worthwhile, you need to put in at least a little effort.

Come on man, it's really not that hard. Simply inject 1ml of sterile water into the vial SLOWLY and not directly onto the powder.

Draw the 1ml into an insulin syringe. Inject the correct amount - I can help you with that if you tell me the mg amount in the vial - subQ (or IM) and simply place the needle back into the fridge for next time.

Inject 15 minutes before food, since glucose and fats will blunt the response.

BBB

Maybe I give it another whirl.... Insulin needles aren't that hard to get as IM needles are...

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

Latest update, I am healing nicely according to the x-rays. Bone mineralization is actually progressing really well despite not messing with the peptides save for the one time. I still have swelling which I am sure is the source of my remaining pain...
I plan on hitting the elliptical starting next week. Not going to screw with lifting at all until pain is gone.

I am so dying to lift it's killing me, but I cannot. I intend on a big time come back though, unless something else breaks....

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

pat wrote:
Latest update, I am healing nicely according to the x-rays. Bone mineralization is actually progressing really well despite not messing with the peptides save for the one time. I still have swelling which I am sure is the source of my remaining pain...
I plan on hitting the elliptical starting next week. Not going to screw with lifting at all until pain is gone.

I am so dying to lift it's killing me, but I cannot. I intend on a big time come back though, unless something else breaks....


So you discontinued the peptides because they were too much effort then basically, or did I miss something?

Glad to hear the bone is healing 'nicely'. I suspect it would have been 'wow, I wasn't expecting it to heal that fast' if you'd been on the G6, just like happened to a couple of my friends/clients.


BBB

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
Latest update, I am healing nicely according to the x-rays. Bone mineralization is actually progressing really well despite not messing with the peptides save for the one time. I still have swelling which I am sure is the source of my remaining pain...
I plan on hitting the elliptical starting next week. Not going to screw with lifting at all until pain is gone.

I am so dying to lift it's killing me, but I cannot. I intend on a big time come back though, unless something else breaks....


So you discontinued the peptides because they were too much effort then basically, or did I miss something?

Glad to hear the bone is healing 'nicely'. I suspect it would have been 'wow, I wasn't expecting it to heal that fast' if you'd been on the G6, just like happened to a couple of my friends/clients.


BBB


It's a little cost prohibitive too, to get enough to be effective. There are other logistical issues, well private ones... If I lived by myself I'd be on it.....

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

Aright, foraying backing to training. Cardio only, eliptical. Starting weight, 185. I predict this to go down over the next couple of months until I can start lifting again.

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

So apparently I fucked up getting this surgery, all I needed was hot salt.
This bone head proceeded to tell me how all back issues can simply fixed with taking a bunch of salt, heating it up in a frying pan as hot as you can, pouring it into a towel and leaning up against a wall with it. He literally told me that he knew a guy whose back issues were so bad he was relegated to a wheel chair and one treatment of hot salt healed him....

Dear Lord, why do I have to put up with this shit? Hot salt, apparently it will fix your back, cure aids, cure diabetes, and your wife will come back to you. I really can't believe he felt possessed to tell me that.

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sam_sneed
Level

Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3359

So do you think the surgery helped at all? I'm at the point where I strain my back every 3-4 months to the point where I can't get out of bed for a week. Right now I'm on an anti-inflammatory and percasets and it still feels like someone's putting a hot knife in my back every time I roll over in bed.

This hot salt trick; is it epson salt straight up in a pan? Or is it table salt mixed in water in a pan. I'll try anything right now. I haven't been able to train more than 10 weeks straight since June. Fuckin sucks.

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sam_sneed
Level

Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3359

Got my MRI Friday and the spine specialist said the herniated disc needs to be removed ASAP. It's gotten to the point where it can cause permanent nerve damage affecting other areas. Right now any small movement both causes pain at the nerve in my back and it feels like I'm getting kicked in the balls at the same time. So I guess I'll know first hand how effective spinal surgery is after I get it done this Monday.

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

sam_sneed wrote:
So do you think the surgery helped at all? I'm at the point where I strain my back every 3-4 months to the point where I can't get out of bed for a week. Right now I'm on an anti-inflammatory and percasets and it still feels like someone's putting a hot knife in my back every time I roll over in bed.

This hot salt trick; is it epson salt straight up in a pan? Or is it table salt mixed in water in a pan. I'll try anything right now. I haven't been able to train more than 10 weeks straight since June. Fuckin sucks.


Sorry I dropped the ball on this thread. I think you probably need some muscle relaxers to the protocol as that would get you back on your feet quicker.

I never actually strained my back. I just had ever increasing and unceasing pain and numbness down my left leg.
The culprit was a combination of pancake flat discs pushing on the nerve from one side, and bone spurs poking into it on the other. Activity aggravated it, but my nerve was compressed. It explained why nothing seemed to help except pain killers. But I was getting to the point where I was less and less and less able to do shit, lifting or otherwise. Being in pain all the time made me really cranky too. The you have 20 doctors with 50 different opinions, that didn't help matters either. Opinions ranged from "It's all in your head." to "Your fucked". I did physical therapy and all that shit. After the PT I had another MRI and my discs were even flatter. That's when I knew...

Since I had several things wrong with my back, I decided to have ONE surgery and get it all. I didn't believe in the ol' 'let's try this and see' if it helps. It's a big intrusion so I wanted one intrusion.

It's a good thing I took that route too, while the surgery worked in that it got rid of all the other shit wrong with my back, it also gave me what is described as 'Extensive edmema'...After another litany of dr visits and merciful pain clinic protocol, I am pretty much on the 2 year track. The good news is that the edema will go away, the bad news is that it will be this time next year before I have true relief.

Why do I have edema? I think the dr used a rusty chain saw to get through the muscle. He said it was really hard to cut and really thick. The nerves that were severed have built fluid around them and there is not shit anybody can do for it, it's just got to take it's course.

And that's why I dropped the ball in here. It's hard to read about training when you can't really train....

On the other hand, things like dips and chins I can do. So I started doing them and on my 3rd set of chins I heard a rip in my left arm and I dropped like a stone. So now I have a fucked up tendon in my left arm and edema in my lower lumbar musculature. If I were a horse, they'd have shot me....


I can do little things. Mainly cardio so I don't get fucking fat.

As for you. It'd doesn't sound like you need any mega intrusions. But it may be worth an x-ray to see if you have any alignment issues.
Further, especially after squats or deads, deload the back, do some back bends and those gay ass yoga push-ups where you keep your hips on the floor.

Also, try ice and heat. Which ever one works better, use it regularly. If heat helps, it's probably muscular, if cold helps you may have some impingement, but nothing serious, yet.

Also check your family...I got my shit from my mother.

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

sam_sneed wrote:
Got my MRI Friday and the spine specialist said the herniated disc needs to be removed ASAP. It's gotten to the point where it can cause permanent nerve damage affecting other areas. Right now any small movement both causes pain at the nerve in my back and it feels like I'm getting kicked in the balls at the same time. So I guess I'll know first hand how effective spinal surgery is after I get it done this Monday.


Oh shit! Well, ignore my last post.... Let us know how you do.... Sorry man.

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sam_sneed
Level

Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3359

pat wrote:
sam_sneed wrote:
Got my MRI Friday and the spine specialist said the herniated disc needs to be removed ASAP. It's gotten to the point where it can cause permanent nerve damage affecting other areas. Right now any small movement both causes pain at the nerve in my back and it feels like I'm getting kicked in the balls at the same time. So I guess I'll know first hand how effective spinal surgery is after I get it done this Monday.


Oh shit! Well, ignore my last post.... Let us know how you do.... Sorry man.



No problem, your last post was very informative. Thanks for taking the time.

The surgery was February 27, I'm still in pain and lack any ROM in my lower back. I've had 3 follow up visits and the surgeon says it all looks great except for the back spasms. I'm on muscle relaxers for that now but honestly they have never ever worked for me. I must taken 3 or 4 different types over the years. He told me it's going to be 6 to 12 months before I'm healed so hopefully I'll be able to train by then. I gave it a shot the other day and the only machine (never mind free weights) I could do was seated leg extensions. Till then it's just physical therapy and 2 miles walks. Genetics also played a role in my injury. Most of my discs are degenerative. The one removed must have been taking the brunt of the force over the years.

I know how you feel about posting and training. The only place I post in GAL to waste time or BS about the NBA playoffs.

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

sam_sneed wrote:
pat wrote:
sam_sneed wrote:
Got my MRI Friday and the spine specialist said the herniated disc needs to be removed ASAP. It's gotten to the point where it can cause permanent nerve damage affecting other areas. Right now any small movement both causes pain at the nerve in my back and it feels like I'm getting kicked in the balls at the same time. So I guess I'll know first hand how effective spinal surgery is after I get it done this Monday.


Oh shit! Well, ignore my last post.... Let us know how you do.... Sorry man.



No problem, your last post was very informative. Thanks for taking the time.

The surgery was February 27, I'm still in pain and lack any ROM in my lower back. I've had 3 follow up visits and the surgeon says it all looks great except for the back spasms. I'm on muscle relaxers for that now but honestly they have never ever worked for me. I must taken 3 or 4 different types over the years. He told me it's going to be 6 to 12 months before I'm healed so hopefully I'll be able to train by then. I gave it a shot the other day and the only machine (never mind free weights) I could do was seated leg extensions. Till then it's just physical therapy and 2 miles walks. Genetics also played a role in my injury. Most of my discs are degenerative. The one removed must have been taking the brunt of the force over the years.

I know how you feel about posting and training. The only place I post in GAL to waste time or BS about the NBA playoffs.


2 months post op I expect you to be in pain still. Really expect 4 months of pain, for normal recovery. So by now you should be on the road to feeling way better, unless you have an unforeseen complication like I have. Then your on the 2 year track and the way it's going, honestly I think it can take longer.

My problem also was genetically based. My mother had the same issues, but she sand bagged it for so long it ended up causing other problems. For instance, the back issues caused her to compensate with her hips which ended up needing to be surgically repaired before her back could be. My muscular/ skeletal composition is definitely from her side of the family and she has had a lot of issues in that department and consequently surgeries to fix it. The tendon in my left arm is still problematic, but not as. However, my mother had a similar issue, but the source of it was an bone impingement in her shoulder. Her bone was actually compressing the nerve and the only thing that can be done is shave the bone. Since I have nearly paid down my deductible, I might go ahead and get the work up. But if is does need cutting, I am going to wait, I am just not ready to do this shit again when I haven't fully recovered from the last one yet.

I long since knew that I had the same bone structure as my mother, but I didn't think I would have any issues because I was, and am still very flexible. I mean like rubber when I was younger, I could put both my legs behind my head until I was 28. I can still go down further in a split than a lot of teenage girls. But alas, I went from indestructible to fragile as glass, seemingly over night. Bottom line seems to be that I have more surgery waiting for me in my future. You cannot outwit your genetics.

While I certainly don't wish you any ill, I am a little glad to have a kindred spirit in knowing what it's like to have gone through this stuff. To live in daily pain and the frustration of dealing with asshole doctors.

I can actually lift a little now though. It's not that it doesn't hurt, but the issue I am having with the edema is do to nerve damage. Everything else is in the pink, so it hurts, but I am not going to any harm by doing some judicious lifting. Obviously I am not setting any records, but it's nice to do some work with the weights, I missed it badly. If that stupid 'twinkie' on my back (that's what it looks like) wasn't there I could go full bore. So right now, I do what I can, when I can and wait. The waiting SUCKS. It feels like it will never get better.

I certainly hope you don't have this type of complication, it's rare, so you shouldn't. My surgeon was like "I never saw that before", so I guess I am special.

Really by now, unless you have any complications, you should be able to start some light training. Before you do, make sure the bone fusion is taking and has progress significantly. My fusion took extremely well, so I am just waiting on the nerve damage to heal.

I wonder if HGH would help with healing the denervation? I might ask next time I go...

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17709

Well, I have found, that with pain medication, as it's wearing off, it allows me to train somewhat decent. No where near pre-back issue, but I can do some stuff. The problem is that as previously described, I have nerve damage in the lower lumbar musculature.

According to my PT, since it's nerve damage and not tissue, I should be able to train some and not further injure the area. But it's not going away, that's my problem. Desperation is setting in a little. If another surgery is needed to remove scar tissue and to help speed this healing, I will do it. The stuff I went in for is fixed, this is damage from the actual surgery.

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