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smokotime
Level 0
Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 372
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Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
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physioLojik
Level 5
Join date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 413
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smokotime wrote:
Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
Be wary of chiro's and their xrays :) Go get a second opinion from an MD or DO who is a specialist,
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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physioLojik wrote:
smokotime wrote:
Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
Be wary of chiro's and their xrays :) Go get a second opinion from an MD or DO who is a specialist,
Agreed. Here in the UK, reputable chiros do NOT Xray patients as a matter of 'routine'. Xrays damage you.
BBB
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smokotime
Level 0
Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 372
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Thanks guys, I'll get a referral and chase that up.
I'm still curious as to how one would manage a non-muscular back injury, as it is outside what I've encountered and all I've gotten from medical people is "Don't lift" and from meatheads it's just "get stronger".
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ajweins
Level 3
Join date: Aug 2005
Location: South Dakota, USA
Posts: 913
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bushidobadboy wrote:
physioLojik wrote:
smokotime wrote:
Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
Be wary of chiro's and their xrays :) Go get a second opinion from an MD or DO who is a specialist,
Agreed. Here in the UK, reputable chiros do NOT Xray patients as a matter of 'routine'. Xrays damage you.
BBB
That is what they are teaching in the US as well. Unless there is a direct trauma and a fracture needs to be ruled out, x-rays are a waste of money and just puts you under radiation for no reason since the treatment method won't change.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
physioLojik wrote:
smokotime wrote:
Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
Be wary of chiro's and their xrays :) Go get a second opinion from an MD or DO who is a specialist,
Agreed. Here in the UK, reputable chiros do NOT Xray patients as a matter of 'routine'. Xrays damage you.
BBB
Double agreed, you need to see a real doctor. Preferably a neurosurgeon or a sports orthopedist. Get an MRI too.
My back finally was just barking to much and I went to the orthopedist and found it's pretty fucked up. Herniated disc, disc degeneration, and arthritis, pretty much from L-3,4 down. The herniated disc is below L-5.
It's way depressing to say the least, gone are heavy squats, dead lifts, or anything that loads the spine significantly, I am afraid forever.
It's weird though, squatting and DL's don't hurt at all. As a matter of fact, if I do them (which I was told not to) my back feels fine; even for a couple of hours later.
I train through it the best I can, but I am fucked which is why I haven't posted in the cell for a while. It's depressing.
I am attacking it from all sides, but in reality their may not be much I can do. A lot of these cases the cure (surgery) is worse than the disease.
I am going to finish with my orthopedic. I have been referred to a pain clinic, but I am also discussing my case with a neurosurgeon I just happen to know, off the record.
That's my whiny little rant for the day. But know this, I still train. I keep fucking training until nothing works anymore....
Dude get a real dr. to look at your back, you could have serious issues back there that popping, vibrating and pulling just won't fix. It's a least good to know what you have. The fracture is of concern. I would not load the spine until it's been looked at thoroughly.
Besides, I think chiro's are quacks....I apologize to any one that offends. It's my opinion.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
physioLojik wrote:
smokotime wrote:
Ok, so this isn't entirely selfless, but I figured it's worth putting to the big dogs.Long story short, I went into a new Chiro and they happened to have in-house X-Rays. One routine scan later, it turns out I have a fracture to the L5 and high grade 1 slippage (~20%).
So if anyone's up for it, let's talk spines!
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Anyone got arthritis in the back?
Hell, if anyone has scoliosis how does it change anything?
*I'm not planning on getting anything done right now, just curious as to what the options are if it gets worse in 10-15 years.
Be wary of chiro's and their xrays :) Go get a second opinion from an MD or DO who is a specialist,
Agreed. Here in the UK, reputable chiros do NOT Xray patients as a matter of 'routine'. Xrays damage you.
BBB
Hey B^3,
I sent you a PM did you get it? I sent somebody else one and they never got it so I just want to know if you got mine...
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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No Pat, my PMs are turned off (not my choice, but it's actually quite nice and peacefull, lol).
Whilst there are many excellent chiros out there, there are also many ignorant fools who get to call themselves 'chiropractor'. The average patient isn't equipped to differentiate, which is why personal recommendation is so vital.
I would love to be able to work with you Pat if for no other reason than to challenge myself. I really hope you find some degree of healing that allows you to continue what you are doing.
BTW, can you detail some of your sym[toms for me. I'm intrigued since you say that lifting doesn't actually hurt.
BBB
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sam_sneed
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 3294
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smokotime wrote:
Who's damaged verterbrae, or had a client/training partner go through it?
me.
Herniated L3-4, bulging L4-5. Marked straightening of the lordotic curvature of the lumbar spine.
What do you do to manage it? Did you find a medical professional who doesn't simply tell you not to lift?
Saw a chiro and bad PT for a year. I know she was bad because my back is still fucked up and she had me doing 100 situps a day to "strengthen my core". My insurance stopped paying for my PT because I wasn't making progress so I've never been back to any therapy. I wish I knew of a good PT in NJ that could fix me up, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
Any good/horror stories for spinal fusion and lifting? *
Right now, a 135 lb deadlift will hurt my back.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
No Pat, my PMs are turned off (not my choice, but it's actually quite nice and peacefull, lol).
Whilst there are many excellent chiros out there, there are also many ignorant fools who get to call themselves 'chiropractor'. The average patient isn't equipped to differentiate, which is why personal recommendation is so vital.
I would love to be able to work with you Pat if for no other reason than to challenge myself. I really hope you find some degree of healing that allows you to continue what you are doing.
BTW, can you detail some of your sym[toms for me. I'm intrigued since you say that lifting doesn't actually hurt.
BBB
Symptoms are:
Consistent, persistent, discomfort. There is an ache involved but it feels like what I can only described as a 'profound discomfort'. There is a little bit of numbness going down each hamstring, but honestly, the depo medrol epidurals exacerbated that. I did not have that, before. What I had was pain in my lower spinal erectors , or maybe the thoracolumbar fascia, it's in the area what ever hurt. Also the pain is pronounced across the lilac crest area. basically a stripe that goes across my lower back above the glutes and the lower back.
It felt like a stiffness morning or night time, then it got more persistent and went to troubleshoot where the MRI revealed my doom.
What hurts the most is sitting on hard chairs or benches. The only drug-free relief is if I do squat or DL. But not a pussy work out, I have to bring it hard and then I feel fine for a while. I reckon it just may be endorphins kicking in there. After it just feels tired, but not uncomfortable or pain. Problem is I cannot squat 24 hrs a day.
Spending any time in flexion kills me too, putting on my socks is uncomfortable. Working on the car, working on the lawn, shit like that is murder.
Here's a shot of the MRI...What you will notice is that that the vertebral spacing is more or less fine, but the discs tell a different story...
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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Well, I got the email back from the neurosurgeon,I sent him the full suite of MRI's. He said I am fucked.
Excerpt from the email:
"
Patrick,
The two bottom discs in your back are badly degenerated. These could easily cause back and/or leg pain. Treatment should start with anti inflamatories but an operation to fuse these two levels may become necessary sorry to say. The best spine surgeon I know in the Atl is......"
Anybody been trough anything similar and still able to lift? I was on the road to 400 in the squat, I want to get on that road again.
Also, since the discs are fucked, is there any harm in continuing to load the spine?
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sam_sneed
Level 0
Join date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 3294
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pat wrote:
Well, I got the email back from the neurosurgeon,I sent him the full suite of MRI's. He said I am fucked.
Excerpt from the email:
"
Patrick,
The two bottom discs in your back are badly degenerated. These could easily cause back and/or leg pain. Treatment should start with anti inflamatories but an operation to fuse these two levels may become necessary sorry to say. The best spine surgeon I know in the Atl is......"
Anybody been trough anything similar and still able to lift? I was on the road to 400 in the squat, I want to get on that road again.
Also, since the discs are fucked, is there any harm in continuing to load the spine?
Are you squatting for powerlifting meets or just to squat? I couldn't even load 185 on the back squat without my lower back screaming at me. I can however front squat without lower back back pain. I don't know the mechanics, but I think the load is transferred to your upper back since that's where I feel the pressure. I know it's not the same as back squat, but maybe it can become a viable substitute. I have no medical background, it just works out like that for me.
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Tatsu
Level 2
Join date: Dec 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 807
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sam_sneed wrote:
Saw a chiro and bad PT for a year. I know she was bad because my back is still fucked up and she had me doing 100 situps a day to "strengthen my core". My insurance stopped paying for my PT because I wasn't making progress so I've never been back to any therapy. I wish I knew of a good PT in NJ that could fix me up, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
I'm getting really sad hearing about these kinds of people. Doing sit ups will do nothing about an insufficient multifidi and transversus abdominus synergy, in that construct doing more dynamic exercises will help. But in most cases there is more to it... No wonder your insurance didn't want to pay up anymore.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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sam_sneed wrote:
pat wrote:
Well, I got the email back from the neurosurgeon,I sent him the full suite of MRI's. He said I am fucked.
Excerpt from the email:
"
Patrick,
The two bottom discs in your back are badly degenerated. These could easily cause back and/or leg pain. Treatment should start with anti inflamatories but an operation to fuse these two levels may become necessary sorry to say. The best spine surgeon I know in the Atl is......"
Anybody been trough anything similar and still able to lift? I was on the road to 400 in the squat, I want to get on that road again.
Also, since the discs are fucked, is there any harm in continuing to load the spine?
Are you squatting for powerlifting meets or just to squat? I couldn't even load 185 on the back squat without my lower back screaming at me. I can however front squat without lower back back pain. I don't know the mechanics, but I think the load is transferred to your upper back since that's where I feel the pressure. I know it's not the same as back squat, but maybe it can become a viable substitute. I have no medical background, it just works out like that for me.
My back hurts all the time, but when I do something like squats it seems to feel ok, but the numbness and tingling increases. I don't have to say that I probably need to knock it off. To say this has derailed my progress would be the understatement of the year. Honestly, I don't know if my training will be able to survive this. It may be over.
I mean real training which unavoidably loads the spine a great deal. It's a struggle to train right now, it's not even enjoyable at the moment.
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
No Pat, my PMs are turned off (not my choice, but it's actually quite nice and peacefull, lol).
Whilst there are many excellent chiros out there, there are also many ignorant fools who get to call themselves 'chiropractor'. The average patient isn't equipped to differentiate, which is why personal recommendation is so vital.
I would love to be able to work with you Pat if for no other reason than to challenge myself. I really hope you find some degree of healing that allows you to continue what you are doing.
BTW, can you detail some of your sym[toms for me. I'm intrigued since you say that lifting doesn't actually hurt.
BBB
Symptoms are:
Consistent, persistent, discomfort. There is an ache involved but it feels like what I can only described as a 'profound discomfort'. There is a little bit of numbness going down each hamstring, but honestly, the depo medrol epidurals exacerbated that. I did not have that, before. What I had was pain in my lower spinal erectors , or maybe the thoracolumbar fascia, it's in the area what ever hurt. Also the pain is pronounced across the lilac crest area. basically a stripe that goes across my lower back above the glutes and the lower back.
It felt like a stiffness morning or night time, then it got more persistent and went to troubleshoot where the MRI revealed my doom.
What hurts the most is sitting on hard chairs or benches. The only drug-free relief is if I do squat or DL. But not a pussy work out, I have to bring it hard and then I feel fine for a while. I reckon it just may be endorphins kicking in there. After it just feels tired, but not uncomfortable or pain. Problem is I cannot squat 24 hrs a day.
Spending any time in flexion kills me too, putting on my socks is uncomfortable. Working on the car, working on the lawn, shit like that is murder.
Here's a shot of the MRI...What you will notice is that that the vertebral spacing is more or less fine, but the discs tell a different story...
Ok, here are MY thoughts, based upon the info you have given.
The primary pain is caused by the displaced nucleus pressing onto pain-sensitive structures such as the PLL (posterior longitudinal ligament). There is likely facet compression, causing pain. This (and the primary pain) may be referring to the iliac crest, however I also suspect muscular involvment.
Because you have a loss of stability in the spine (because the vertebrae are closer together now due to reduced intradiscal pressure), you have muscular 'splinting', hence the chronic stiffness. This local (interspinalis muscles) and global (quadratus lumborum, etc) hypertonicity prevents the muscles from healing and has been shown to induce muscular atrophy, rapidly and significantly. It may also cause pain by focal-point irritation ('trigger' points) and/or by calcium infiltration at the periosteum (just like in lateral epicondylitis, etc, etc) caused by the chronic tension there.
Your inability to forward lean is possibly cause by an imbrication fixation. Basically the tiny muscles between the spinous processes of one or more lumbar vertebra are in spasm, fixing the joint in a 'bad' position. When you lean forward, these spasmic muscles complain loudly as the lumbar spine wants to flex, but those insulted muscles cannot let go.
What can you do? Well I'm extrmely limited in what I can do, obviously, but one suggestion is this:
Buy a small (45cm) diameter swiss ball. Inflate it. Do a forward bend on it, like a face-down crunch. I would have said "forward roll" but I don't want you going past the tipping point.
This is a stretch and provided you hold it long enough, should allow nearly all of this hypertonic muscles to at least begin to relax.
Once you have stretched for a while, you can 'crunch' INTO the ball, so squeeze with your hip flexors and abs and really try to crush the ball with the anterior musculature, all whilst facing into the ground.
Tihs exercise should help to switch off the hypertonic muscles a little by warrant of sherringtons law of reciprocal inhibition.
There is a lot more I could do with you in person, but alas...
All the best,
BBB
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
No Pat, my PMs are turned off (not my choice, but it's actually quite nice and peacefull, lol).
Whilst there are many excellent chiros out there, there are also many ignorant fools who get to call themselves 'chiropractor'. The average patient isn't equipped to differentiate, which is why personal recommendation is so vital.
I would love to be able to work with you Pat if for no other reason than to challenge myself. I really hope you find some degree of healing that allows you to continue what you are doing.
BTW, can you detail some of your sym[toms for me. I'm intrigued since you say that lifting doesn't actually hurt.
BBB
Symptoms are:
Consistent, persistent, discomfort. There is an ache involved but it feels like what I can only described as a 'profound discomfort'. There is a little bit of numbness going down each hamstring, but honestly, the depo medrol epidurals exacerbated that. I did not have that, before. What I had was pain in my lower spinal erectors , or maybe the thoracolumbar fascia, it's in the area what ever hurt. Also the pain is pronounced across the lilac crest area. basically a stripe that goes across my lower back above the glutes and the lower back.
It felt like a stiffness morning or night time, then it got more persistent and went to troubleshoot where the MRI revealed my doom.
What hurts the most is sitting on hard chairs or benches. The only drug-free relief is if I do squat or DL. But not a pussy work out, I have to bring it hard and then I feel fine for a while. I reckon it just may be endorphins kicking in there. After it just feels tired, but not uncomfortable or pain. Problem is I cannot squat 24 hrs a day.
Spending any time in flexion kills me too, putting on my socks is uncomfortable. Working on the car, working on the lawn, shit like that is murder.
Here's a shot of the MRI...What you will notice is that that the vertebral spacing is more or less fine, but the discs tell a different story...
Ok, here are MY thoughts, based upon the info you have given.
The primary pain is caused by the displaced nucleus pressing onto pain-sensitive structures such as the PLL (posterior longitudinal ligament). There is likely facet compression, causing pain. This (and the primary pain) may be referring to the iliac crest, however I also suspect muscular involvment.
Because you have a loss of stability in the spine (because the vertebrae are closer together now due to reduced intradiscal pressure), you have muscular 'splinting', hence the chronic stiffness. This local (interspinalis muscles) and global (quadratus lumborum, etc) hypertonicity prevents the muscles from healing and has been shown to induce muscular atrophy, rapidly and significantly. It may also cause pain by focal-point irritation ('trigger' points) and/or by calcium infiltration at the periosteum (just like in lateral epicondylitis, etc, etc) caused by the chronic tension there.
Your inability to forward lean is possibly cause by an imbrication fixation. Basically the tiny muscles between the spinous processes of one or more lumbar vertebra are in spasm, fixing the joint in a 'bad' position. When you lean forward, these spasmic muscles complain loudly as the lumbar spine wants to flex, but those insulted muscles cannot let go.
What can you do? Well I'm extrmely limited in what I can do, obviously, but one suggestion is this:
Buy a small (45cm) diameter swiss ball. Inflate it. Do a forward bend on it, like a face-down crunch. I would have said "forward roll" but I don't want you going past the tipping point.
This is a stretch and provided you hold it long enough, should allow nearly all of this hypertonic muscles to at least begin to relax.
Once you have stretched for a while, you can 'crunch' INTO the ball, so squeeze with your hip flexors and abs and really try to crush the ball with the anterior musculature, all whilst facing into the ground.
Tihs exercise should help to switch off the hypertonic muscles a little by warrant of sherringtons law of reciprocal inhibition.
There is a lot more I could do with you in person, but alas...
All the best,
BBB
Thanks B^3. I really think the gig is up, though. I'll try the swiss ball thing though if it will give me some relief, but I think back surgery is my only option, just what kind and what is my down time is the main question.
Second, if I were to have a vertibal fusion, would I be able to train with any serious weight or has the bell tolled for me?
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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I can't really comment on surgery since I'm not a surgeon. All I'll say is that if you get it, please consider a course of either GH or GHRP6 (better option; legal, cheap, safe) to ensure successful bone fusion.
BBB
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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sam_sneed wrote:
pat wrote:
Well, I got the email back from the neurosurgeon,I sent him the full suite of MRI's. He said I am fucked.
Excerpt from the email:
"
Patrick,
The two bottom discs in your back are badly degenerated. These could easily cause back and/or leg pain. Treatment should start with anti inflamatories but an operation to fuse these two levels may become necessary sorry to say. The best spine surgeon I know in the Atl is......"
Anybody been trough anything similar and still able to lift? I was on the road to 400 in the squat, I want to get on that road again.
Also, since the discs are fucked, is there any harm in continuing to load the spine?
Are you squatting for powerlifting meets or just to squat? I couldn't even load 185 on the back squat without my lower back screaming at me. I can however front squat without lower back back pain. I don't know the mechanics, but I think the load is transferred to your upper back since that's where I feel the pressure. I know it's not the same as back squat, but maybe it can become a viable substitute. I have no medical background, it just works out like that for me.
Squats are out....My last try my back felt super unstable, I can't got there again I would like to be able to walk, even if I cannot squat.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
I can't really comment on surgery since I'm not a surgeon. All I'll say is that if you get it, please consider a course of either GH or GHRP6 (better option; legal, cheap, safe) to ensure successful bone fusion.
BBB
That sounds interesting. I think I would need some help with GHRP6 though. I haven't gone to the dark side is quite a long time.
I am not doing anything rash as far as surgery. I have been doing the prescribed PT (not from you), but it hasn't done shit...Depo medrol made things worse it seems. Right now it's manage the pain, and find the best solution to the problem.
Sadly, I have shed weight though too. I was back up to 200 before this problem really took hold, but I cannot maintain that weight with out being able to lift like I had been. I am down to 189. I figure 170 is a decent weight to maintain while my intensity is down.
This sucks....
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FattyFat
Level 0
Join date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 1352
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pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
I can't really comment on surgery since I'm not a surgeon. All I'll say is that if you get it, please consider a course of either GH or GHRP6 (better option; legal, cheap, safe) to ensure successful bone fusion.
BBB
That sounds interesting. I think I would need some help with GHRP6 though. I haven't gone to the dark side is quite a long time.
I am not doing anything rash as far as surgery. I have been doing the prescribed PT (not from you), but it hasn't done shit...Depo medrol made things worse it seems. Right now it's manage the pain, and find the best solution to the problem.
Sadly, I have shed weight though too. I was back up to 200 before this problem really took hold, but I cannot maintain that weight with out being able to lift like I had been. I am down to 189. I figure 170 is a decent weight to maintain while my intensity is down.
This sucks....
Pat, what about attaching training loads to your pelvis to relieve your spine?
I know this sounds asinine, but if you were to wear a dip belt and step onto two shallow benches or pile up two plate stacks and step on them, you'd have the added height to do full ROM dip-belt-weighted squats.
You could also do some serious back training using an incline bench for chest/spine support. Just make sure to plant your feet firmly on the ground.
I know it's tougher to progress without serious spinal loading.
But you can work around that. Maybe your spine's going to become better, maybe not. You can still up the ante, though, by identfying exercises that you can do without further reaggravation of your spine and then progress in them.
Don't give up.
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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Honestly, whilst I would never tell someone to give up on their dreams/passion for lifting, I will tell you that I think you need to seriously back off until things are resolved one way or the other. Your mentality at present, ewhilst commendable in some respects seems a little too 'fu*k you' towards your spinal issues. I too was like that but it gets you nowhere IMO. You need to play the long game and chill for now, so you can dominate in future.
I suggest you become master of your own condition and start to read, so that YOU can make the decisions that will affect YOU for the rest of your life, instead of relying on physios and internet strangers ;)
BBB
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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bushidobadboy wrote:
Honestly, whilst I would never tell someone to give up on their dreams/passion for lifting, I will tell you that I think you need to seriously back off until things are resolved one way or the other. Your mentality at present, ewhilst commendable in some respects seems a little too 'fu*k you' towards your spinal issues. I too was like that but it gets you nowhere IMO. You need to play the long game and chill for now, so you can dominate in future.
I suggest you become master of your own condition and start to read, so that YOU can make the decisions that will affect YOU for the rest of your life, instead of relying on physios and internet strangers ;)
BBB
Now that's what I call wisdom. That's the best advise I have ever received. Mastering the condition.
Yes, I know I cannot go full tilt, the lumber spine just happens to be involved in everything. So pushing big weights and going nuts is not really an option. Right now I am just trying to stay in shape despite the conditions. It's simply not a choice, walking is actually more important than squatting so I just have cut everything down, including my weight.
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pat
Level 4
Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 15046
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FattyFat wrote:
pat wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
I can't really comment on surgery since I'm not a surgeon. All I'll say is that if you get it, please consider a course of either GH or GHRP6 (better option; legal, cheap, safe) to ensure successful bone fusion.
BBB
That sounds interesting. I think I would need some help with GHRP6 though. I haven't gone to the dark side is quite a long time.
I am not doing anything rash as far as surgery. I have been doing the prescribed PT (not from you), but it hasn't done shit...Depo medrol made things worse it seems. Right now it's manage the pain, and find the best solution to the problem.
Sadly, I have shed weight though too. I was back up to 200 before this problem really took hold, but I cannot maintain that weight with out being able to lift like I had been. I am down to 189. I figure 170 is a decent weight to maintain while my intensity is down.
This sucks....
Pat, what about attaching training loads to your pelvis to relieve your spine?
I know this sounds asinine, but if you were to wear a dip belt and step onto two shallow benches or pile up two plate stacks and step on them, you'd have the added height to do full ROM dip-belt-weighted squats.
You could also do some serious back training using an incline bench for chest/spine support. Just make sure to plant your feet firmly on the ground.
I know it's tougher to progress without serious spinal loading.
But you can work around that. Maybe your spine's going to become better, maybe not. You can still up the ante, though, by identfying exercises that you can do without further reaggravation of your spine and then progress in them.
Don't give up.
I appreciate the well wishes FF, and I don't plan on giving up, but the lumbar spine is one tough thing to train around. And if I put my dip belt on with a decent weight, it sits right where it hurts and that would not bode well.
I train around it the best I can, but the loads have to drop. The lumbar spine is present in everything and the heavier the load the more it's involved on any movement.
Like BBB said, I was kinda going 'fuck you' to my back back for a little bit, but I just can't do that any more. The last load on my back felt bad, very unstable. That was the point of epiphany, for me. Trust me, I have been training for the better part of 20 years and this is soul crushing for me. My biggest fear is that it may be over. I mean real, proper training, not the 'fat housewife' definition.
I'll keep trucking as long as I can, but I am going to have to be a pussy for a little while. I see Push 11 years my senior in perfect shape and it just kills me. The condition is genetic, my mother has it too and she's never lifted a weight in her life....I thought my conditioning would have stopped it or slowed it, and maybe it did. But the bell is tolling right now.
Enough of my whining....Thanks again, add ten pounds to your max squat for me.
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bushidobadboy
Level 3
Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565
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Start with books by Stuart McGill. 'Low back disorders' and 'ultimate back fitness'.
I think you might be pleasantly surprised just how much of a recovery you can make, however you have surely accrued some extra damage through your recent 'fu*k you' habits, which will make things a little more tricky.
What supplements/vits etc are you currently taking?
BBB
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NIguy
Level 0
Join date: Apr 2009
Location:
Posts: 279
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Just a general question, I have a habit of locking my facet joint in my lower back. Does anyone know of a self manipulation exercise to unlock it?
I've been doing this stretch
http://biggerdrives.com/...h/stretch12.jpg
does that look about right?
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